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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:41 pm 
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Powerwise, his strength is up there with the top of Marvel's charachters (Hulk, Thor, etc).
Being made of energy, he should be easily explained as being just as durable.
He can fly now, under his own power, as opposed to the belt jets.
He was always supposed to be extremely fast, although he is rarely shown to be such.
Just let him shoot ionic rays from his eyes, and you have a decent charachter that should match up well with Superman.

He has a classic Marvel type backstory, (failed businessman, made some mistakes, fell in with the wrong crowd, turned to the side of the angels when it counted, died redeeming himself, came back to life, always brave inspite of having a deep DEEP fear of dying again) showing him to be a bit more of a flawed charachter then Superman. Making charachters in that mold is what made Marvel dominant in the firld for fourty years, after all.

If they can literally "make up" a really bad version of Superman and cram him into the MU, forcing him down our throats without even doing a halfway decent job of writing him, just so they can have "their Superman", why can't they use a long established, already accepted charachter to fit that role?

I mean, if they can breathe new life into dead horses like Cage, Ghost Rider, Spider-Woman, and Ms Marvel, why not make Wonder Man a real force and a successful franchise?

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Niatpac Levram!!!!!!

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Better yet:


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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:12 pm 
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That costume looks way better on this "Simone" Williams than it ever did on Simon.

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:52 pm 
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I loved that issue of "What If?"

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:06 pm 
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George Tuska Wonder Man

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I'm pretty sure that's what Gerard Jones and Fabian Nicieza had in mind in his series. They left him able to fly and project energy beams from his eyes. All of which was promptly ignored. I think he's top tier (obviously) and under utilised.

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:13 pm 
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Emissary to the Prophets

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I know he's your favorite, Dave, but I've always found Wonder Man to be kind of lame. I don't think Marvel's ever really known what to do with him.

That said, I wouldn't mind reading that solo series he had that was drawn (mostly) by Jeff Johnson. If that ever becomes an ESSENTIAL, I'll check it out. I caught a few issues here and there, and Simon seemed a little more focused than usual.


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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:25 pm 
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I was first introduced to Wonder Man in the pages of John Byrne's The Thing comic book in the 80's. There was this story where the Puppet Master took control of She-Hulk, Wonder Man and then Spider-Man and made them fight Ben Grimm. To me, Simon Williams was this guy in sunglasses and a red leather jacket who could go toe-to-toe with the Thing. The story never revealed Wonder Man's eyes, but the narration suggested they weren't normal and I kinda liked that mystery. I thought he was cool because here was this powerful guy whom I knew nothing about who had some quirks.

Getting back to the question of this thread, I don't think Wonder Man is, nor should be, "Marvel's Superman." IMO, Marvel doesn't really need their own version of "Superman" in the first place.

I like my Wonder Man superstrong and that's it. No ionic energy powers, no flight and no Kirby Krackle.

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:34 pm 
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George Tuska Wonder Man

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Naw, my favorite is Captain America, Wondy is a distant second. But I agree, they never found a spot for WM. He's immensely powerful, but his potential has rarely been used. The WM series was ok, and they worked out a few of his demons (literally in one case).

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:44 pm 
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I think the name Wonder Man is a big reason why the character isn't bigger.

Another reason is that Wondy is always portrayed as second to Thor and no as competent as Iron Man or Cap.

Bottom line, you can't fabricate popularity- if fans reacted more strongly to Wondy, he'd be a bigger deal.


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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:00 pm 
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Hanzo the Razor wrote:
I think the name Wonder Man is a big reason why the character isn't bigger.


I concur. I know this statement probably belongs in another thread, but I would call him Simon Williams, Wonder Man or Simon "Wonder Man" Williams in order to add some seriousness to the character's name without changing it.

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:21 pm 
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You can't fabricate popularity?

Tell that to Luke Cage and Sentry!

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:25 pm 
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George Tuska Wonder Man

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I'd like to see him go adventuring in a comic called "Simon Williams, Man of Wonder." I also think "Hollywood" in the Guardians of the Galaxy was an incredible take on the character. He played pretty well as the shamed hero on a galactic stage.

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:00 pm 
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Emissary to the Prophets

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Darin wrote:
I like my Wonder Man superstrong and that's it. No ionic energy powers, no flight and no Kirby Krackle.


I loved the Busiek/Perez AVENGERS relaunch, but I thought that the "resurrected ionic energy" version of Wonder Man was uninspired and boring, even visually. Dave's animated avatar features a couple of costumes that I really liked over the years; the glowing "Kirby krackle" look just did nothing for me at all.

Plus, it was kind of creepy that he was nothing more than a ghost brought back into the real world whenever Wanda felt like having him around. Y'know, to fight bad guys or pleasure her sexually or something.


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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:03 pm 
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George Tuska Wonder Man

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Frank L. Sisko wrote:
Darin wrote:
I like my Wonder Man superstrong and that's it. No ionic energy powers, no flight and no Kirby Krackle.


I loved the Busiek/Perez AVENGERS relaunch, but I thought that the "resurrected ionic energy" version of Wonder Man was uninspired and boring, even visually. Dave's animated avatar features a couple of costumes that I really liked over the years; the glowing "Kirby krackle" look just did nothing for me at all.

Plus, it was kind of creepy that he was nothing more than a ghost brought back into the real world whenever Wanda felt like having him around. Y'know, to fight bad guys or pleasure her sexually or something.
That was cleared up by issue 10... he was using Wanda as a focus, but it WAS him. That's why he didn't disappear when they broke up :)

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:32 pm 
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Ancient Alien Theorist

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Gregg H wrote:
You can't fabricate popularity?

Tell that to Luke Cage and Sentry!


They're in the same boat as Wonder Man; despite many attempts, no regular, top-selling ongoing for any of 'em.

I actually collected the Wonder Man comic during the 90's, until the artist left. I have a soft spot for Wondy and think his energy form is badass. But, I think it'll take a really interesting angle to get him to be A-list.


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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:53 pm 
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George Tuska Wonder Man

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There were a lot of "failed" comics in the 90's that would have benefitted by the 6 issue arc, tpb mentality of today. Wonder Man made it 28 issues. That would be a huge success today. If you write in 6 issue arcs, you can change out a writer to keep it fresh much easier than in an "ongoing"

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:57 pm 
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I liked the future version of Simon.......


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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Marvel's Superman is Sentry.

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:41 pm 
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Emissary to the Prophets

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Ed Sanders wrote:
I liked the future version of Simon.......


Wait. He changed his name to "Hollywood"?

Oh, that's not a good thing.


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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:55 pm 
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IMWAN needs a Taft!

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Marvel doesn't need a "Superman". In terms of sheer strength,
they already have the Hulk. In terms of all the other "intangible"
qualities that Superman has, Marvel has Captain America. So I
consider this question to be moot.

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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:15 pm 
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By "Marvel's Superman" I was thinking in terms of use as the "we need to someone super-duper powerful to show up" way that they have been using Sentry.

No WAY is WOnder Man used or treated in the same way that Cage and Sentry are being used. Cage gets more dialogue in any given issue of anything he appears in that Wonder Man has gotten in the Mighty Avengers total run.

Sentry was built up in such a way as when he was going to show up in World War Hulk it was supposed to be the "holy crap! NOW we are going to see a fight! moment. Wonder Man on the other hand, got beat in like half a page by the Green Goblin. And not just beat. Beat BADLY.
I can chalk that up to whoever it was that wrote Civil War not actually having bothered to remember (or care) that Wonder Man can and has stood toe to toe with Ultron, Abomination, Neferia, Vision, and others. Or the fact that in his first appearance Iron Man, Cap, Thor, Giant Man.
But hey, who needs to care about previous appearances of a charachter when you have a lame, poorly contrived plot point to make?

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Halecki's inevitable truth in life #1:
All women, no matter how mature, intelligent, and emotionally well adjusted they may seem to be when you meet them, will without fail, do SOMETHING in their life for which they deserve to be shot.


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 Post subject: Should Wonder-Man be Marvel's Superman?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:24 pm 
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George Tuska Wonder Man

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Wonder Man loses to Ultron, Graviton, Magneto, Dr Doom, and Count Nefaria. Nobody else. That's why he's so hard to write in the Marvel Universe

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