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Federico
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:27 am |
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Depressed Optimist
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Joined: | 12 Jul 2006 |
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Location: | Moved so d*** many times in 6 years what's the point? |
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I want to pick up some Zappa but I don't know where to start.
Based on my general musical taste I think I want to start with albums that focus on instrumental music or live albums.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
_________________ Ring the bells that still can ring, forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
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Barry Veverka-Brownlie
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:54 am |
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Joined: | 01 Oct 2006 |
Posts: | 33 |
Location: | Winnetka, California, USA |
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Focusing on the instrumental side of Zappa, eh?
Zappa created a lot of variety in his time and some of his best "instrumental" work can be found within the context of some of his songs. Every album usually had an "instrumental" or two or three.
I would more often than not call these individual instrumentals "pieces" in the classical sense as Zappa had a classical composer's mindset. His sense of humor (in song titles and in lyrics) belayed the seriousness in which he approached music.
Zappa also had strong jazz leanings, but I'd give the nod to a classical point of view, even if it seems like a bit of a stretch when you actually hear the work.
I'd go with earlier Zappa than in the middle or near the end to begin an appreciation of the artist:
Strictly instrumental is:
Hot Rats
The Grand Wazoo
More often instrumental than not:
Burnt Weeney Sandwich (contains live tracks)
Uncle Meat (contains live tracks)
Weasels Ripped My Flesh
Waka/Jawaka
Live:
Fillmore East
Just Another Band From L. A.
I don't think you can go wrong (I like them a lot) with 'Freak Out' or 'Absolutely Free' or 'We're Only In It For The Money', but they contain a lot of parody and social commentary that may not be what you are looking for.
Barry
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Federico
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:14 pm |
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Depressed Optimist
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Joined: | 12 Jul 2006 |
Posts: | 2539 |
Location: | Moved so d*** many times in 6 years what's the point? |
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Barry,
Thanks. That was exactly what I was looking for (not that it should stop anyone else from chiming in).
I have heard that Freak Out and WOIIFTM were very good and I am not averse to social commentary but I know that the best way into the music for me, right now is the instrumental stuff.
Thanks again.
_________________ Ring the bells that still can ring, forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
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Murdog
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:36 pm |
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Joined: | 29 Sep 2006 |
Posts: | 1058 |
Location: | Denver, CO |
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The "Shut Up And Play Your Guitar" set is pretty nice too for pure instrumental work.
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Federico
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:50 pm |
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Depressed Optimist
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Joined: | 12 Jul 2006 |
Posts: | 2539 |
Location: | Moved so d*** many times in 6 years what's the point? |
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Thanks. Added that to the list too.
_________________ Ring the bells that still can ring, forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
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Federico
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:29 pm |
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Depressed Optimist
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Joined: | 12 Jul 2006 |
Posts: | 2539 |
Location: | Moved so d*** many times in 6 years what's the point? |
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In case anyone is looking for closure on this, I picked up a Zappa Threesome No.2 which has Hot Rats, Grand Wazoo and Waka/Jawaka, all for under 30 bucks. At first listen this is just what I was looking for. Thanks for the advice.
_________________ Ring the bells that still can ring, forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
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Steve in KY
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:34 pm |
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Joined: | 20 Sep 2006 |
Posts: | 362 |
Location: | Louisville, KY |
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Barry Veverka-Brownlie wrote: Focusing on the instrumental side of Zappa, eh?
Live: Fillmore East Just Another Band From L. A.
Barry
Would the "Fillmore East" album you mentioned be the one that contains the "Sometime In New York City" jams with John and Yoko? I think I'd like to pick up whichever of his LPs have those to complement the Lennon/Ono rerelease that cut those tracks.
Is it available on CD? What is the full title?
I'd appreciate the help. I own nothing of Frank Zappa, and that is my chosen starting point.
Thanks!
Steve In Louisville
_________________ Don't You Know Who I Think I Was?
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Zane
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:47 pm |
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Joined: | 05 Aug 2006 |
Posts: | 826 |
Location: | Wilson, NC |
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Playground Psychotics is the Zappa album that has his version of the Lennon/Zappa/Ono "collaborations"
_________________ Papillon busted free. We watched him at 4:53. And I'm glad you chose to spend the night with me.
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the 801
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:51 pm |
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Joined: | 08 Oct 2006 |
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Steve in KY wrote: Would the "Fillmore East" album you mentioned be the one that contains the "Sometime In New York City" jams with John and Yoko? I think I'd like to pick up whichever of his LPs have those to complement the Lennon/Ono rerelease that cut those tracks.
Is it available on CD? What is the full title? 'Fillmore East' does not contain the John & Yoko material; 'Playground Psychotics' is the title to look for. It's a double CD that is still in-print... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000009TL/?tag=imwan-20
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NoURider
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:23 pm |
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Joined: | 21 Jul 2006 |
Posts: | 3310 |
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Fedrico, for an excellent overview of Zappa, of all particular phases of his career in a live environment, you can't go wrong with the You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore series (I - VI). Everything from complex instrumental passages, 'hit's, to basic stage silliness and 'audience participation' from just about every band he toured with is presented.
As such, these are compilations of live material*. The quality of the recordings vary, understandably. Nothing is bad, there just may be some noticeable differences between tracks on occasion.
Some entries are stronger than others, but I think its hard for a collector not to get the whole set (and as a fan, there is enjoyment throughout). If pushed, the two which standout for me are Vol 1 and 2 (but those are the two I am most familiar with - One was my lifeblood on my depolyment to Okinawa). 2, well, 2 is:
* - This is one you will definately want. It is an entire concert from his 74 touring band, which was a smaller group - six including FZ. FZ handles all the guitar and this is an instrumental monster. Complicated arrangements and FZ's guitar is in your face throughout. I always feel I am there when I listen to this one.
I believe you enjoy classical music. If so you may want to check out 'London Symphony Orchestra Vol 1 and II.' This double disc compiles his previous orchestra releases in one package (don't know the original titles). 'Yellow Shark', his last release, is another symphonic piece.
'Guitar', the '2nd Trilogy' to 'Shut Up and Play Your Guitar', another batch of instrumental passages, is excellent.
Enforced Recreation for all! - D
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Federico
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:41 pm |
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Depressed Optimist
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Joined: | 12 Jul 2006 |
Posts: | 2539 |
Location: | Moved so d*** many times in 6 years what's the point? |
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NoURider,
Thanks for the live advice. I will definitely look for that second volume.
What got me started on Zappa were some big band arrangements that killed me with the time changes. I do enjoy one of Zappa's heroes, Edgar Varese so I am sure that the LSO recordings will wind up in the house at some point.
_________________ Ring the bells that still can ring, forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
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Steve in KY
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:48 pm |
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Joined: | 20 Sep 2006 |
Posts: | 362 |
Location: | Louisville, KY |
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the 801 wrote: Steve in KY wrote: Would the "Fillmore East" album you mentioned be the one that contains the "Sometime In New York City" jams with John and Yoko? I think I'd like to pick up whichever of his LPs have those to complement the Lennon/Ono rerelease that cut those tracks.
Is it available on CD? What is the full title? 'Fillmore East' does not contain the John & Yoko material; 'Playground Psychotics' is the title to look for. It's a double CD that is still in-print... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000009TL/?tag=imwan-20 Thanks for the info, the 801 and miscghost! I'll be looking it up now. Any versions of this title that are preferred by Zappa fans? Any versions to avoid? Thanks again! Very quick of both of you! Steve In Louisville
_________________ Don't You Know Who I Think I Was?
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Dr. Chris Evil
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:53 pm |
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Pure Evil Gold!!
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Joined: | 26 Jul 2006 |
Posts: | 37648 |
Location: | Witness Protection Program |
Bannings: | Ask Linda |
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I too have been taking the plunge into the Zappa waters. Fortunately, my drummer friend from work is a Zappa fan and has been able to point me in the right direction, because if you buy the wrong first Zappa album like I did - I bought the first CD twofer of We're Only In It For The Money / Lumpy Gravy - you might not buy anymore.
So far, I've gotten and liked
Apostrophe Overnight Sensation Hot Rats Strictly Commercial ("best of" comp) and Joe's Garage.
_________________
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Master Hare
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:05 am |
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Smokin' D'oh !
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Joined: | 31 Jan 2008 |
Posts: | 900 |
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Like some of the guys above I'm competely new to Zappa too,and really only have ideas about the music from what I have gleaned in music guides.I wanted to try "Hot Rats" but read some awful reviews on Amazon UK that the cd version is way different in terms of sound compared to the original vinyl that came out in 1969.Critics have claimed that Zappa himself went back into the studio and re-edited all the tapes,removing the highs and leaving all sorts of junk in.The main complaint,he was a fantastic musician but a terrible sound engineer.This refers to the 2002 Ryko edition.
I also had an inclination towards The Mothers Of Invention "Freak Out".I didn't read any unfavourable comments about this,but then I have not done further research yet.This too came out on Ryko in 2002,and must also have had Zappa's hands on it.
Any opinions about the Ryko reissues or if anything better exists ?
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Dr. Chris Evil
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:14 am |
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Pure Evil Gold!!
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Joined: | 26 Jul 2006 |
Posts: | 37648 |
Location: | Witness Protection Program |
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Master Hare wrote: Like some of the guys above I'm competely new to Zappa too,and really only have ideas about the music from what I have gleaned in music guides.I wanted to try "Hot Rats" but read some awful reviews on Amazon UK that the cd version is way different in terms of sound compared to the original vinyl that came out in 1969.Critics have claimed that Zappa himself went back into the studio and re-edited all the tapes,removing the highs and leaving all sorts of junk in.The main complaint,he was a fantastic musician but a terrible sound engineer.This refers to the 2002 Ryko edition.
I also had an inclination towards The Mothers Of Invention "Freak Out".I didn't read any unfavourable comments about this,but then I have not done further research yet.This too came out on Ryko in 2002,and must also have had Zappa's hands on it.
Any opinions about the Ryko reissues or if anything better exists ? I thought about getting Freak Out myself, but my Zappa friend at work advised against it - he didn't care for all the doo wop stuff on it. I picked up the 1995 CD version of Hot Rats and enjoyed it. I have heard that it's been remixed and rejiggered with by Zappa, but it's the only version I've ever listened to and I like it.
_________________
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Master Hare
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:36 am |
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Smokin' D'oh !
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Joined: | 31 Jan 2008 |
Posts: | 900 |
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Dr. Chris Evil wrote: I picked up the 1995 CD version of Hot Rats and enjoyed it. I have heard that it's been remixed and rejiggered with by Zappa, but it's the only version I've ever listened to and I like it. You probably have a better version there Chris.Pressings that came out in the '90s often do sound better than the more compressed sound of versions that came later.I might well try and find one of these older versions,even if it does still have Zappa's tampering written all over it.I must say though I hate it when they do that,but I guess as he probably held copyright over the music he could do whatever he liked.Peaches en Regalia is a fantastic choon,and I would like it on the original album-I only have it at the moment on a prog rock compilation. I may just get The Mothers Freak Out,critics value it highly as an archive of the burgeoning freak culture on the West Coast in the late '60s.From what I gather it is a weird statement,with a number of musical pastiches including the doo-wop.I can't imagine it's quite as bad as Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica.It's stepping a fine line,as some of this type of music can border on the un-listenable.
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Dr. Chris Evil
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:41 am |
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Pure Evil Gold!!
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Joined: | 26 Jul 2006 |
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Master Hare wrote: Dr. Chris Evil wrote: I picked up the 1995 CD version of Hot Rats and enjoyed it. I have heard that it's been remixed and rejiggered with by Zappa, but it's the only version I've ever listened to and I like it. You probably have a better version there Chris.Pressings that came out in the '90s often do sound better than the more compressed sound of versions that came later.I might well try and find one of these older versions,even if it does still have Zappa's tampering written all over it.I must say though I hate it when they do that,but I guess as he probably held copyright over the music he could do whatever he liked.Peaches en Regalia is a fantastic choon,and I would like it on the original album-I only have it at the moment on a prog rock compilation. I may just get The Mothers Freak Out,critics value it highly as an archive of the burgeoning freak culture on the West Coast in the late '60s.From what I gather it is a weird statement,with a number of musical pastiches including the doo-wop.I can't imagine it's quite as bad as Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica.It's stepping a fine line,as some of this type of music can border on the un-listenable. If you have to get Freak Out, get the two-disc MOFO (making of Freak Out), which has the original album mix. I believe the Ryko CD is one of Zappa's infamous remix jobs.
_________________
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Master Hare
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:43 am |
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Smokin' D'oh !
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Joined: | 31 Jan 2008 |
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Thanks I'll look into that.
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Dr. Chris Evil
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:52 am |
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Pure Evil Gold!!
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Master Hare wrote: Thanks I'll look into that. Given the option, I'd always want to seek out the original version. I've read good things about MOFO.
_________________
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NoURider
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:45 pm |
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Joined: | 21 Jul 2006 |
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This can go on and on...which is a good thing!
I think one who is interested in a interesting overview, could not go wrong with the You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol 1-6 They are compilations of live material covering most of his career. Vol 2 is of particular interest, as it represents an entire concert from 72, and has a lot of monster guitar.
Federico, since you enjoy classical music, I would also recommend Yellow Shark and London Symphony Orchestra Vol I and II
Other individual titles I like: Zoot Allures One Size Fits All
I did not intially care for the early Mother albums, as I started with Joe's Garage, and focused more on his late 70s / 80s material...but I did come around and now really get into them, particularly Freak Out
Can't go wrong with FZ
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Federico
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:53 pm |
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Depressed Optimist
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Joined: | 12 Jul 2006 |
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Location: | Moved so d*** many times in 6 years what's the point? |
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Thanks for the recommendation Dan. I'll check those out.
I would have sworn there was also recording of Zappa material conducted by Pierre Boulez but I can't find it. Did I make that up?
_________________ Ring the bells that still can ring, forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
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alantig
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Post subject: Seeking Some Zappa Advice Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:09 pm |
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Puppy Monkey Alan!
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Nope, not imagining it - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E63FF2/?tag=imwan-20. My first Zappa exposure (good lord - 30 years ago!) was "Dancing Fool". My first Zappa albums were "Zappa In New York" and "Joe's Garage Act I" on cassette. Since then, I've become something of a Zappa freak, although I'll confess that not all of his stuff resonates with me across the board. One of the great things about Zappa, though, is even if you only like a certain genre of his stuff, there's plenty of it available. I'm very fond of the rockier-type stuff, the guitar solos, the comedy numbers; less so the classical and early psychedelic stuff. It's always hard for me to pick my favorites, but I'd say "Joe's Garage", "Zappa In New York", "Apostrophe'", "Zoot Allures", "One Size Fits All", "Fillmore East", "Thing-Fish", "Lather" (an unfair choice since it covers about four 70s albums - "Zappa In New York", "Sleep Dirt", "Orchestral Favorites" and "Studio Tan"), "Sheik Yerbouti", "Tinseltown Rebellion", "You Are What You Is", "Broadway The Hard Way", "The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life", "Shut Up And Play Your Guitar", "Guitar", and the Stage series. I really like the live stuff because it shows just how talented the bands were, and I think it may show Zappa in his best form, especially playing. An excellent source for information about the various Zappa releases can be found here: http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/index.htmlThey go into quite a bit of detail, and it's been extremely helpful for finding variations on the releases. Alan
_________________ Alan
"This is a true story, except for the parts that didn't happen." - Steven Wright
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