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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:40 pm 
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This situation comes up in fan fiction, but I'm sure it also arises in comic books and movie screenplays. Have you ever seen a situation where a writer wants a character to do something but has to stretch the willing suspension of disbelief to the breaking point for the reader (or audience) to accept that such a character would do such a thing.

(E.G. Reed Richards' actions during and after Civil War...)

Can anybody think of other examples?

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:57 pm 
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I cannot give you a specific, but I can tell you that torturing of character to get a plot point going is one of the things that put me off of soap operas.

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:22 pm 
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One of the things that got me thinking was if there were a Hollow Woman story.

(You have thirty seconds to groan and roll your eyes!)

Anyway, I was wondering what if it was the cute redhead vet who became invisible instead of Sebastian Caine---Kevin Bacon's character. Here's where we get to square pegs in round holes. I can't imagine any reason why Sarah Kennedy (Kim Dickens) would WANT to do this. The only person crazy enough to risk his life is Caine this way is Caine. Assuming the Army would reject Caine's offer to volunteer, why would they insist on having one of the lab workers be the guinea pig when they have thousands of soldiers? I can see Kennedy being COERCED into doing it, but why use her or one of the lab technicians?

(Obviously, I'm thinking of this experiment being done under the Pentagon's orders instead of behind their backs as in the movie...)

Four words are forming in my mind, and they are probably the same words you are thinking...

GIVE....IT...UP...EDDIE!

Do we need Caine? Probably not, but I would love to see some arrogant @$$hole get his comeuppance, and he more than fits the bill. OK, it was a stupid idea...

Eddie

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:18 am 
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Spider-Man taking the time to correct a little kid that "Spidey" is not right.


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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:23 am 
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Dave Toxik wrote:
Spider-Man taking the time to correct a little kid that "Spidey" is not right.


:shock:

You're kidding me. Who wrote that---Byrne?

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:26 am 
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I think with serial fiction, especially serial fiction that runs for decades, it's a bit trickier to define. We can say it's out of character for Batman to carry a gun, yet carry a gun he did.

In shorter works it's a bit easier. Take something like HEROES.

Spoiler: show
Parkman, throughout the series, has been shown to be a good, honest cop who clearly believes in the law. But when Bennet shoots Eric Roberts, he doesn't even blink.


That, to me, is a character being written out of character to serve the plot.

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:51 pm 
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BTW, I think I figured a way out of my dilemma. Instead of using the veteranarian character from Hollow Man, use a college student who signs up for the experiment to make extra dough. Instead of using Kevin Bacon's Sebastian Caine, I'll use another scientist who is ALSO a major @$$hole, but in a completely different way...

Eddie Cunningham

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:47 pm 
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Eddie, HOLLOW MAN was a piece of shit. Let it go, man.


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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:46 pm 
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Actually, it was a pretty good movie, but I'm thinking of something a little different. Probably a moot point since I'll don't think I'll get around to writing it...

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:47 pm 
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Monk wrote:
I think with serial fiction, especially serial fiction that runs for decades, it's a bit trickier to define. We can say it's out of character for Batman to carry a gun, yet carry a gun he did.

In shorter works it's a bit easier. Take something like HEROES.

Spoiler: show
Parkman, throughout the series, has been shown to be a good, honest cop who clearly believes in the law. But when Bennet shoots Eric Roberts, he doesn't even blink.


That, to me, is a character being written out of character to serve the plot.


Spoiler: show
Parkman stole diamonds from a crime scene. He's been shown to have his demons.


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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:53 pm 
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...

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Edward J. Cunningham wrote:
Actually, it was a pretty good movie, but I'm thinking of something a little different. Probably a moot point since I'll don't think I'll get around to writing it...


Why not a movie written from the invisible gorilla's viewpoint? :D

Or even...JUST GIVE IT UP, ALREADY! :lol:


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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:04 am 
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Simon wrote:
Edward J. Cunningham wrote:
Actually, it was a pretty good movie, but I'm thinking of something a little different. Probably a moot point since I'll don't think I'll get around to writing it...


Why not a movie written from the invisible gorilla's viewpoint? :D

Or even...JUST GIVE IT UP, ALREADY! :lol:


No, but I'm sure somebody could turn that into a good story... :D

I'm actually thinking of two parallel narratives. The first would show this woman in the present, living a marginal life---using her invisibility to steal enough to get by, but can't lead a normal life or make lasting relationships. Obviously, I'm not interested in this character as a predator or a psychopath.

The second storyline would explain how she got into this situation. I'm thinking that this group of scientists offer to pay students $100 to take a survey where they answer personal question about their background and lifestyle. For the "winner"---a young woman who is healthy but has no immediate relatives who would be worried if she goes missing, they offer her $10,000 to take part in the experiment.

Here's the kicker. In the movie, the DOD wanted an invisibility serum that could be safely reversed. It occurred to me that that might not be at the top of their priorities. If they could safely make a soldier or operative invisible and the serum doesn't kill them or drive them insane, it would still be worth it if the invisibility was irreversible. Naturally, they don't tell this student this piece of news...

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:21 am 
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It sounds like the HOLLOW MAN connection is tenuous enough that you don't really need it. Even the 'invisibility drives you insane' really comes from THE INVISIBLE MAN.

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:34 am 
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...

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If you ever see the film Amazon Women on the Moon, watch out for the 'Son of the Invisible Man' sketch. It's the funniest take on 'invisibility' I've ever seen, and makes me laugh no matter how often I see it.

No invisible apes...but those are an acquired taste, anyway.


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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:02 pm 
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Monk wrote:
It sounds like the HOLLOW MAN connection is tenuous enough that you don't really need it. Even the 'invisibility drives you insane' really comes from THE INVISIBLE MAN.


I'm actually thinking of ditching the connection, although the guy in charge, like Kevin Bacon's character, like Denis Leary, and the motorist who cut off Jimmy Buffett is an @$$hole...

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:15 pm 
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IMWAN needs a Taft!

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Hoo boy---you really CAN find anything on the internet!

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Aurora/8842/

Don't know if any of those stories are any good. I found one at sci-fi.com which uses invisibility as a metaphor...

http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/origina ... index.html

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 Post subject: Square pegs in round holes [NOT A STORY]
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:37 pm 
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bump

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