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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:29 pm 
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Hanzo knows how much I love this universe and the Marvel Family, my all time favorite characters. Pisses me off that DC does not acknowledge that it really is in Public Domain and don't get me started on any post-Crisis.versions.

I have a dream maxi-series I want to do that not only relaunches them in their own universe again, but what has happened to them since is explained in a thematic and underlying way.

Any other fans? Any love for any particular character that you feel has great potential? Would love to hear it.

I have plans for the whole Sivan family that harkens back to the very early days and origin. Beautia And Magnificus included, with their back story expanded.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:32 pm 
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Are the Quality comics also in the public domain? A Captain Marvel-Plastic Man team-up would be fun.


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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:24 pm 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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I think I only saw one story (as a kid 50+ years ago) featuring Dr. Sivana that talked about his wife from Venus.
Maybe Dr. Sivana was seen as a hero on Venus, I forget, but that's a fun idea. Anyway, so I'd like to see more of that.
I liked Beautia, and thought it was interesting that young Billy (as Cap) was an awkward love interest, depending on how
you imagined that the Billy/Captain Marvel switch/egos worked.

I'll look around. I wrote up a skeleton outline for a potential Captain Marvel movie in the 1970s (as a period piece circa
1940). I wanted Dr. Sivana to have some steam-powered robots at the World's Fair, and the Captain rescuing things
when one of them malfunctions. Sivana was also making use of some advanced Venus technology.

It was to be one of Cap's first's appearances and a reason for some enmity between them. (I thought another unseen
scientific rival might have sabotaged Thaddeus' work.).

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:40 am 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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So… I saw a post on the (chapter serial Facebook page for) Serial Squadron, that a Rob Samuel is apparently about
to release some sort of Captain Thunder series: Captain Thunder, Kid Thunder, Ms Thunder, ….

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:41 am 
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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:27 am 
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This is an interesting look at The Monster Society of Evil,


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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:10 am 
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Ancient Alien Theorist

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Allen Berrebbi wrote:
Hanzo knows how much I love this universe and the Marvel Family, my all time favorite characters. Pisses me off that DC does not acknowledge that it really is in Public Domain and don't get me started on any post-Crisis.versions.

They do acknowledge that some of the stories are in the public domain and those issues have been reprinted by small-time publishers besides DC -- example here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1793087679/?tag=imwan-20 -- but the real issue is that DC has trademarked the names and visuals (and Marvel owns "Captain Marvel"), so it would be very difficult to produce and then promote a Captain Marvel book under those circumstances.

But yeah, I love them too. I got this set for Christmas last year and it's pretty darn swell.

Click for full size


Allen Berrebbi wrote:
I have a dream maxi-series I want to do that not only relaunches them in their own universe again, but what has happened to them since is explained in a thematic and underlying way.

Any other fans? Any love for any particular character that you feel has great potential? Would love to hear it.

I love Cap and enjoy reading digital versions of the Golden Age books. The whole approach and aesthetic of those books -- especially the CC Beck and Mac Raboy books -- were fantastic. Probably my favorite Golden Age superhero content outside of Will Eisner's stuff (which is arguably not superhero stuff).

But making it all work today? Honestly, I'm stumped. I can imagine all kinds of ways to do a Captain Marvel story *I* would enjoy, but I'm not sure how you do it for the wider audience. I think it's been shown he just might not work for the modern DSM / Wednesday Warrior market and going all-in on the YA / Scholastic market might be the way forward for greater sales success.

That said, I also think he hasn't had a genuinely great run in the modern era, so there's always the chance that some great team could do it... but outside of Alan Moore (and even he's not a lock for success), I'm not sure which writer I feel confident could make it happen. I look back and think that the rejected Mark Waid / Mike Weiringo pitch might have been "the one that got away" for Cap, but again, who knows.

Image


Evan Shaner would be a great artist for the book and is actually doing a Mary Marvel series later this year -- but it will be the new Geoff Johns version of the MArvel Family, unfortunately.

Click for full size


He did a more classic version of the Marvel Family in his Shazam: Convergence miniseries (which was awesome) --

Click for full size

Click for full size

Click for full size

Click for full size


I also thought Dave Stewart did an amazing job on the Shazam issue of Grant Morrison's Multiversity (ThunderWorld #1), though the story wasn't anything fantastic (but it wasn't bad either, much more simple and direct than the usual Morrison fare) --

Click for full size

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:17 am 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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I kind of like the red, white, and blue Marvel look, but I would give Mary a blue cape if Cap's is white and
Jr's is red.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:21 am 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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Actually, I just colored it blue, and it doesn't look all that great.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:26 am 
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I liked Jerry Ordway's graphic novel and long run on Shazam.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:37 am 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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I own a few Ordway SHAZAM issues and quite liked them. Probably DC's best take on Cap.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:07 pm 
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Beachy wrote:
I own a few Ordway SHAZAM issues and quite liked them. Probably DC's best take on Cap.

I'm partial to the Don Newton stories, but I have to agree.


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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:37 pm 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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Yes, Don Newton drew a great Cap.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:39 pm 
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Bolgani Gogo wrote:
Are the Quality comics also in the public domain? A Captain Marvel-Plastic Man team-up would be fun.


It would and I'd love to bring other PDs into their world. In fact two of them, I already have in mind.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:40 pm 
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Bolgani Gogo wrote:
Beachy wrote:
I own a few Ordway SHAZAM issues and quite liked them. Probably DC's best take on Cap.

Double-post.


I didn't care for Ordways Cap for some reason, mostly the power sharing concept. But I love Newton's run on it, to me the best run for a modern audience, while still keeping the charm and trappings.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:43 pm 
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Beachy wrote:
I think I only saw one story (as a kid 50+ years ago) featuring Dr. Sivana that talked about his wife from Venus.
Maybe Dr. Sivana was seen as a hero on Venus, I forget, but that's a fun idea. Anyway, so I'd like to see more of that.
I liked Beautia, and thought it was interesting that young Billy (as Cap) was an awkward love interest, depending on how
you imagined that the Billy/Captain Marvel switch/egos worked.

I'll look around. I wrote up a skeleton outline for a potential Captain Marvel movie in the 1970s (as a period piece circa
1940). I wanted Dr. Sivana to have some steam-powered robots at the World's Fair, and the Captain rescuing things
when one of them malfunctions. Sivana was also making use of some advanced Venus technology.

It was to be one of Cap's first's appearances and a reason for some enmity between them. (I thought another unseen
scientific rival might have sabotaged Thaddeus' work.).


I love those ideas and yes, I love Beautia and that whole dynamic.

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DISCLAIMER: Everything I say from here on in is my opinion, semantics be damned.
Allen Berrebbi
Owner KRB Media


Big Bang Comics
The Knight Watchman
KRB Media

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:47 pm 
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Location: Tampa, FL
Hanzo the Razor wrote:
Allen Berrebbi wrote:
Hanzo knows how much I love this universe and the Marvel Family, my all time favorite characters. Pisses me off that DC does not acknowledge that it really is in Public Domain and don't get me started on any post-Crisis.versions.

They do acknowledge that some of the stories are in the public domain and those issues have been reprinted by small-time publishers besides DC -- example here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1793087679/?tag=imwan-20 -- but the real issue is that DC has trademarked the names and visuals (and Marvel owns "Captain Marvel"), so it would be very difficult to produce and then promote a Captain Marvel book under those circumstances.

But yeah, I love them too. I got this set for Christmas last year and it's pretty darn swell.

Click for full size


I love Cap and enjoy reading digital versions of the Golden Age books. The whole approach and aesthetic of those books -- especially the CC Beck and Mac Raboy books -- were fantastic. Probably my favorite Golden Age superhero content outside of Will Eisner's stuff (which is arguably not superhero stuff).

But making it all work today? Honestly, I'm stumped. I can imagine all kinds of ways to do a Captain Marvel story *I* would enjoy, but I'm not sure how you do it for the wider audience. I think it's been shown he just might not work for the modern DSM / Wednesday Warrior market and going all-in on the YA / Scholastic market might be the way forward for greater sales success.

That said, I also think he hasn't had a genuinely great run in the modern era, so there's always the chance that some great team could do it... but outside of Alan Moore (and even he's not a lock for success), I'm not sure which writer I feel confident could make it happen. I look back and think that the rejected Mark Waid / Mike Weiringo pitch might have been "the one that got away" for Cap, but again, who knows.

Image


Evan Shaner would be a great artist for the book and is actually doing a Mary Marvel series later this year -- but it will be the new Geoff Johns version of the MArvel Family, unfortunately.

Click for full size


He did a more classic version of the Marvel Family in his Shazam: Convergence miniseries (which was awesome) --

Click for full size

Click for full size

Click for full size

Click for full size


I also thought Dave Stewart did an amazing job on the Shazam issue of Grant Morrison's Multiversity (ThunderWorld #1), though the story wasn't anything fantastic (but it wasn't bad either, much more simple and direct than the usual Morrison fare) --

Click for full size

Click for full size

Click for full size


It could be that like Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy, it's a concept that works better for mainstream audiences than the aging DM fans.

To me, the take I would use is the Harry Potter formula.

Orphan kid who is good at heart, destined to be a great hero
Has two pals, like family, a boy and a girl (like a sister to him)
A world full of unapologetic magic, with talking animals, magic trains, the works
A White haired kindly wizard/mentor
His arch nemesis and opposite number.

And more.

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Allen Berrebbi
Owner KRB Media


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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:31 am 
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Ancient Alien Theorist

Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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Allen Berrebbi wrote:
It could be that like Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy, it's a concept that works better for mainstream audiences than the aging DM fans.

To me, the take I would use is the Harry Potter formula.

Orphan kid who is good at heart, destined to be a great hero
Has two pals, like family, a boy and a girl (like a sister to him)
A world full of unapologetic magic, with talking animals, magic trains, the works
A White haired kindly wizard/mentor
His arch nemesis and opposite number.

And more.

I like where your head is at, all great ideas. I've been reading a lot of older material lately (adventure strips such as Flash Gordon, Captain Easy, Prince Valiant, The Phantom, etc.) and while there are flaws -- mostly bigoted attitudes (but that's to be expected, these are time capsules) -- there's also a wonderful simplicity to the stories and characters that give them a universal appeal. It's kind of like what made the very first Star Wars movie such a big hit, it was a classic adventure with classic archetypes.

Now I actually enjoy a lot of material that has political and sociological themes and messages, but I don't want that to be the only offering -- I wish there was a bit more of the lighter fare as well. Sometimes I really do want to see the bad guy twirling his mustache, LOL.

I actually also like this mentality for Superman as well. I think the character has fallen on hard times because DC just can't get out of this mindset of chasing Marvel. The comics started doing it during the Bronze Age and now it seems like the movies are as well -- sadly, they don't seem to realize they'll never be more than second best by going this route.

But while the Marvel approach seems to work well for Batman and Wonder Woman, I think it's trying to fit a round peg into a square hole with a guy like Superman. I would use the same "unlimited world of imagination and fantasy" approach you'd want for the Marvel Family. I would think of the various worlds of his mythology --Krypton, the Bottle City of Kandor, the LOS Future, Bizarro World, etc. -- as little pocket worlds of fantasy a la Never Never Land, the World of Oz, Barsoom, Alice's Wonderland, etc. that sometimes spill over into the "normal" world of Metropolis.

I get that wasn't the original intent of Jerry and Joe, who envisioned a more straight superhero adventure series, but I think that the Weisinger era of the character really makes the character unique in a way the other takes don't.

I've read one of the reasons the John Carter movies didn't work is because so many following sci-fi films strip-mined its ideas, so that when it finally hit the big screen, the general audience felt it was generic and derivative. (I remember seeing a trailer in a theater and some teenage girl near me saying, "They're trying to copy Avatar" when the big green tharks came on screen, lol.) I think this is what's happened with Superman -- the original archetype seems boring to some because he's been copied and used as a springboard by so many other superheroes.

I get he's the first complete superhero and the template for all that followed, but I think he needs a little more than that to appeal to a superhero-saturated media landscape -- and I think that an updated version of Weisinger's world of fantasy might be able to do it.


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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:37 am 
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Ancient Alien Theorist

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Some more Evan Shaner --

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:08 am 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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The Captain Marvel hood will never be cool.

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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:50 pm 
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I don't think it looks bad, TBH.

I obviously much prefer the original, but I'm a middle-aged man with an unusually strong interest in comics before my generation -- hardly the target demographic. I think the original suit is timeless, but judging by what's popular among young people today, I couldn't really say what will appeal to them.

So taking everything like that into account, I think it's a pretty solid redesign. If the kids like extra seams and accessories, well, okay. I'm not gonna buy these comics anyway, so why should I complain? :lol:


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 Post subject: The Fawcett Universe - Pre-Crisis only
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:48 am 
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First Evan Shaner is great and I loved his work on Flash Gordon too. Now that that's out of the way.

Hanzo the Razor wrote:
I like where your head is at, all great ideas. I've been reading a lot of older material lately (adventure strips such as Flash Gordon, Captain Easy, Prince Valiant, The Phantom, etc.) and while there are flaws -- mostly bigoted attitudes (but that's to be expected, these are time capsules) -- there's also a wonderful simplicity to the stories and characters that give them a universal appeal. It's kind of like what made the very first Star Wars movie such a big hit, it was a classic adventure with classic archetypes.


Couldn't agree more. And while there are awful and embarrassing stuff in the past, like Steamboat Willie, there are ways to fix that rather easily and you're right, it was a different time, when even having a black person in the comics was considered a huge no no.

Quote:
Now I actually enjoy a lot of material that has political and sociological themes and messages, but I don't want that to be the only offering -- I wish there was a bit more of the lighter fare as well. Sometimes I really do want to see the bad guy twirling his mustache, LOL.


I'm sure it's no shock to anyone here that I am not a fan of political or sociological stuff in the big two's iconic all ages superheroes. I like it less with DC. Now there are times it works, like the X-Men being a stand in for GENERAL prejudice and hate, instead of slamming it over your head with specifics, it makes it more powerful in my opinion, but with an already shrinking comic biz that is, for now, reliant on the big two, I'd rather they stick to escapism.

Quote:
I actually also like this mentality for Superman as well. I think the character has fallen on hard times because DC just can't get out of this mindset of chasing Marvel. The comics started doing it during the Bronze Age and now it seems like the movies are as well -- sadly, they don't seem to realize they'll never be more than second best by going this route.


Agree again and perhaps the DM audience is not the best judge in many cases, since they have read these books for decades and want them to grow up with them, unlike more classic literature which strives to remain timeless. Plus the inherent history of comic fans and being picked on or embarrassed about reading them (not the same any more) leads many to want to "mature" them up, as almost a justification and "see they're not kiddie books" mentality, while losing all it's charm. I was the same way when I was younger.

DC to me, is at it's best when it is a universe of wonder and anything can happen, like multiverses, bottle cities etc. Marvel is, as Stan said, the world outside your window, which is why their continuous pursuit of more and more power and fantastical elements made it lose some of it's flavor, and why the Ultimates were so well received at the time (a back to basics in some ways). And why the initial MCU movies resonated so well.

Quote:
But while the Marvel approach seems to work well for Batman and Wonder Woman, I think it's trying to fit a round peg into a square hole with a guy like Superman. I would use the same "unlimited world of imagination and fantasy" approach you'd want for the Marvel Family. I would think of the various worlds of his mythology --Krypton, the Bottle City of Kandor, the LOS Future, Bizarro World, etc. -- as little pocket worlds of fantasy a la Never Never Land, the World of Oz, Barsoom, Alice's Wonderland, etc. that sometimes spill over into the "normal" world of Metropolis.


Agree, same sense of wonder buy maybe a more "super sciencey" way as opposed to magic.

Quote:
I get that wasn't the original intent of Jerry and Joe, who envisioned a more straight superhero adventure series, but I think that the Weisinger era of the character really makes the character unique in a way the other takes don't.


Like Batman and killing with a gun, no one says they started out at its peak, creatively. Sure Jerry and Joe didn't intend this initially but it did evolve and Weisinger took it to another level. Like the addition of Robin and the batcave etc. did for Batman.

Quote:
I've read one of the reasons the John Carter movies didn't work is because so many following sci-fi films strip-mined its ideas, so that when it finally hit the big screen, the general audience felt it was generic and derivative. (I remember seeing a trailer in a theater and some teenage girl near me saying, "They're trying to copy Avatar" when the big green tharks came on screen, lol.)


First the marketing was awful and the lead was badly chosen, a surfer dude looking non-actor. And like Betty in the Rocketeer, they Disneyfied Dejah Thoris, and sucked all the sexiness out of her. And the directing was poor when it came to dramatic moments. No sense of wonder at all.

Quote:
I think this is what's happened with Superman -- the original archetype seems boring to some because he's been copied and used as a springboard by so many other superheroes. I get he's the first complete superhero and the template for all that followed, but I think he needs a little more than that to appeal to a superhero-saturated media landscape -- and I think that an updated version of Weisinger's world of fantasy might be able to do it.


Couldn't agree more. And music and directing can help make that happen to, the sense of wonder. Think of the long buildup and then the music and helicopter rescue, I still get chills from that scene, and no live action rescue has come close since.

Beachy wrote:
The Captain Marvel hood will never be cool.


I'm with you bro. The only change I have been okay with is the return of the button flap. And possibly Mary's white suit.

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