Jim Lee, the Korean Artist of Image / WildStorm

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

I added in that extra stuff in the title to make searching for this thread easier in the future.

Looking through the Suicide Squad, Justice League and Hush Unwrapped books by Jim Lee really makes me wonder what he’d look like with a different inker besides Scott Williams. These have so much more energy than the final product — there’s a few random inked pages in these books and they don’t look as sweet as the pencils.

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

He also has been doing a drawing a day (not sure if it's still going on, TBH) to auction off to benefit comic shops impacted by the COVID-19 crisis, based on fan requests. These are gorgeous and while I geneuinely respect Scott Williams' fine work, it makes me wish Jim inked more of his own stuff -- he really adds a beautiful grittiness and almost painterly quality to the work with his inks. You can follow what he's doing here:

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

He started doing watercolors toward the tail end of his 60-day charity challenge. These are nice but people are insane -- these went for $22k, $17.6k, and $14.5k respectively! It must be insane knowing that you can just sit at a table for a few hours and turn out thousands of dollars doing what you love.

Bolgani Gogo · 11 Aug 2004

Damn. I’m not sold on his facial expressions or body language, but Jim Lee sure can draw. A hell of a talent.

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Bolgani Gogo wrote:

Damn. I’m not sold on his facial expressions or body language, but Jim Lee sure can draw. A hell of a talent.

He can actually push that side of his drawing, but rarely does for whatever reason. I think he approaches things in a businessman-like way and does what he feels will sell / excite the audience (from his perspective).

Bolgani Gogo · 11 Aug 2004

I would have him doing every cover that I couldn’t get Brian Bolland to do.

Marcus · 27 Nov 2004

He really is a terrific artist. The pin-ups are great!

Ocean Doot · 25 Oct 2007

Jim Lee is adequate.

Jason Gore · 22 Aug 2004

When he first came to my attention on Uncanny X-men, he blew me away, and of the Image artists, I thought he was the best draftsman. Absolutely gorgeous pages, and there are many more here in this thread. But over time, his lack of storytelling and dynamism on the page became more of a hindrance to my enjoyment, I found it very hard to find odd angles, side profiles, small panels, and active story telling with his work. Eventually, I came to think that every page he drew was meant to maximize the value on the original art market; there's always a full view half splash / full splash view of a character; gorgeous, but posed and static.

Ultimately, like Trevor, I see him as more of a cover artist that a visual storyteller.

For the record, his covers would be glorious.

Jeff · 05 Oct 2006

They are always flexing, and his art has too many unnecessary lines, I guess to look "detailed". But he's a very good artist. Seems the pure pencils suffer a lot less than inked work with the extraneous lines. They look fantastic.

Bolgani Gogo · 11 Aug 2004

Jeff wrote:

They are always flexing, and his art has too many unnecessary lines, I guess to look "detailed". But he's a very good artist. Seems the pure pencils suffer a lot less than inked work with the extraneous lines. They look fantastic.

If only Vince Colletta was still around to fix those extra lines!

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Jason Gore wrote:

But over time, his lack of storytelling and dynamism on the page became more of a hindrance to my enjoyment, I found it very hard to find odd angles, side profiles, small panels, and active story telling with his work. Eventually, I came to think that every page he drew was meant to maximize the value on the original art market; there's always a full view half splash / full splash view of a character; gorgeous, but posed and static.

I see this much the same way as you do, I find his pages lack the sense of balance you find in most Silver Age storytelling, but I also think he's a child of the Bronze Age. This was in the water before Jim Lee and I think the Image generation wanted to take it to the next level -- "why can't every page have a badass money shot?"

While I prefer the standard three tier grid for storytelling, I've actually changed some of my thinking on these kinds of page designs as I've reminisced on my adolescence. Yes, the most important thing is the story, but the element that makes comics unique is that the story is told in drawings. People buy comics to enjoy a story, but they also buy them to enjoy artwork -- people like to look at cool drawings.

That said, I do think sometimes Lee can do better about his storytelling. Sometimes he can do something really nice like this --

But I think sometimes he can fall into the "talking heads" trap once he's a few issues into the grind of a run of issues --

That meddlin kid · 26 Mar 2007

Jeff wrote:

They are always flexing, and his art has too many unnecessary lines, I guess to look "detailed". But he's a very good artist. Seems the pure pencils suffer a lot less than inked work with the extraneous lines. They look fantastic.

I feel much the same way about his art--undoubtedly the work of somebody talented and skilled, but not to my taste.

And what Jason said about overdoing the big "wham" panels. Using them all the time tends to pull the reader out of the story. They're the sort of powerful device that's best when used more sparingly, for something really special.

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

That meddlin kid wrote:

And what Jason said about overdoing the big "wham" panels. Using them all the time tends to pull the reader out of the story. They're the sort of powerful device that's best when used more sparingly, for something really special.

I just don't like when it's a bunch of little head shots like on the last Batman page I posted. If you're really great with facial expressions like Kevin Maguire, I think it's cool, but Lee's biggest weakness seems to be expressive faces and bod language.

Jason Gore · 22 Aug 2004

That meddlin kid wrote:

Jeff wrote:

They are always flexing, and his art has too many unnecessary lines, I guess to look "detailed". But he's a very good artist. Seems the pure pencils suffer a lot less than inked work with the extraneous lines. They look fantastic.

I feel much the same way about his art--undoubtedly the work of somebody talented and skilled, but not to my taste.

And what Jason said about overdoing the big "wham" panels. Using them all the time tends to pull the reader out of the story. They're the sort of powerful device that's best when used more sparingly, for something really special.

Wolverine in the sewer, or Ditko's Spider-Man lift panel are two iconic examples of those really special panels as a story telling device. They're big panels because they are "A BIG F'ING DEAL!!" In hindsight, that Byrne panel was revolutionary for the industry-wide impact that Wolverine would go on to have in comics. While Lee has some massive pin up popularity, I don't associate him with that kind of impact

Oh, and similar to Spider-Man, I'm really glad that my collecting tastes run in other directions than Jim Lee. I could probably complete my original art shopping list (including a mid-range Kirby) for the price of a good Lee X-men page.

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Jason Gore wrote:

Wolverine in the sewer, or Ditko's Spider-Man lift panel are two iconic examples of those really special panels as a story telling device. They're big panels because they are "A BIG F'ING DEAL!!" In hindsight, that Byrne panel was revolutionary for the industry-wide impact that Wolverine would go on to have in comics. While Lee has some massive pin up popularity, I don't associate him with that kind of impact.

As a founding member of Image and one of its most popular creators -- and the guy who drew the best-selling comic ever -- I think he has had even more impact than Byrne. Especially when you consider he's been one of the top dogs at DC for the past 15 or so years.

(Whether you think that impact is good or ill, I'll leave to you.)

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

There's one thing that's kinda disappointing about Lee -- McFarlane is 100% committed to making Spawn as good as he can, Erik Larsen is 100% committed to Savage Dragon, etc. -- but Jim doesn't really seem to care about trying to make his own creations with WildStorm into enduring properties. It's a shame. WildCATs, Gen13, StormWatch / The Authority... these had loyal fanbases at one point. WildStorm was the most successful Image studio in the 90s. Now it feels like that's all gone.

They need to get him to finish that WildCATs project with Grant Morrison, it looked so damn awesome. I would buy the FUDGE out of this series. The FUDGE, people.

Jason Gore · 22 Aug 2004

Hanzo the Razor wrote:

Jason Gore wrote:

Wolverine in the sewer, or Ditko's Spider-Man lift panel are two iconic examples of those really special panels as a story telling device. They're big panels because they are "A BIG F'ING DEAL!!" In hindsight, that Byrne panel was revolutionary for the industry-wide impact that Wolverine would go on to have in comics. While Lee has some massive pin up popularity, I don't associate him with that kind of impact.

As a founding member of Image and one of its most popular creators -- and the guy who drew the best-selling comic ever -- I think he has had even more impact than Byrne. Especially when you consider he's been one of the top dogs at DC for the past 15 or so years.

(Whether you think that impact is good or ill, I'll leave to you.)

Sorry, this wasn't Lee versus Byrne (which is no contest), but Lee versus Wolverine, and all that he represents. So much of Wolverine's popularity starts - or was cemented, I wasn't around - with that panel, and the dark anti-hero loner type became the dominant trope in comics, leading directly to Zack Snyder. And while Lee may have been a leading artist for Image, I always got the sense that it was McFarlane who was really pushing for creative control and freedom.

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Jason Gore wrote:

And while Lee may have been a leading artist for Image, I always got the sense that it was McFarlane who was really pushing for creative control and freedom.

Yeah, I think Lee, Larsen, Liefeld, etc. all were thinking Image would be a side project and they could still do projects here and there for Marvel. Lee has said he didn't know what McFarlane was going to say at their famous (or infamous, depending on your POV) meeting with Marvel brass where they told them they were forming their own company.

And in '96, Lee and Liefeld went and did side projects for Marvel. Larsen did a Defenders book not too much later (after his proposal for a Hulk run after PAD left the book was declined),

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Hey kids -- COMICS!

Quote:

In 2017, DC Comics shared Morrison’s script for an unpublished second issue [of WildCATs] in the book Wildstorm: A Celebration of 25 Years. This unused script offers a deeper look at Morrison’s vision for the series, featuring new villains, corporate warfare, alien conflict, political intrigue, and kinky titillation. [...]

Morrison also devotes significant attention to Teal’s [a super-villain] sexual desires. At one point, she confesses to her comrades that she plans to turn the android Spartan into her “OWN PERSONAL SEX TOY.” She abuses her sexy assistant Wendy in the boardroom and in the bedroom. When Voodoo arrives in Dubai to infiltrate Omnimart, Teal (believing Voodoo’s cover as a mere superhuman prostitute) hires her and outlines her plans for the evening:

“LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I WANT, LITTLE SHAPESHIFTER. I’M GOING TO PUT MY BRAINLESS, DISORGANIZED LITTLE SECRETARY OVER MY KNEE AND SPANK HER… AND WHEN I REACH THE COUNT OF 10, I WANT YOU TO TRANSFORM INTO A GIANT BEETLE AND TAKE ME FROM BEHIND.”
For the subsequent panel, artist Lee is tasked to draw a closeup of “Teal’s cruel face, smiling.” And a few panels later: “Close on Wendy’s face, yelping in pain.”

On page 17, panel four, Morrison instructs Lee to draw a scene combining sexual ecstasy and horror:

“Close on a leering, ecstatic Teal. She looks Luciferic, lit from below as she raises her hand to strike. Eyes closed, head thrown back. Behind her, a massive blurred beetle shape."

#grandeur

https://medium.com/meanwhile/life-and-d ... 3ab8d468f5

Jason Michael · 30 May 2012

Hanzo the Razor wrote:

Hey kids -- COMICS!

Quote:

In 2017, DC Comics shared Morrison’s script for an unpublished second issue [of WildCATs] in the book Wildstorm: A Celebration of 25 Years. This unused script offers a deeper look at Morrison’s vision for the series, featuring new villains, corporate warfare, alien conflict, political intrigue, and kinky titillation. [...]

Morrison also devotes significant attention to Teal’s [a super-villain] sexual desires. At one point, she confesses to her comrades that she plans to turn the android Spartan into her “OWN PERSONAL SEX TOY.” She abuses her sexy assistant Wendy in the boardroom and in the bedroom. When Voodoo arrives in Dubai to infiltrate Omnimart, Teal (believing Voodoo’s cover as a mere superhuman prostitute) hires her and outlines her plans for the evening:

“LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I WANT, LITTLE SHAPESHIFTER. I’M GOING TO PUT MY BRAINLESS, DISORGANIZED LITTLE SECRETARY OVER MY KNEE AND SPANK HER… AND WHEN I REACH THE COUNT OF 10, I WANT YOU TO TRANSFORM INTO A GIANT BEETLE AND TAKE ME FROM BEHIND.”
For the subsequent panel, artist Lee is tasked to draw a closeup of “Teal’s cruel face, smiling.” And a few panels later: “Close on Wendy’s face, yelping in pain.”

On page 17, panel four, Morrison instructs Lee to draw a scene combining sexual ecstasy and horror:

“Close on a leering, ecstatic Teal. She looks Luciferic, lit from below as she raises her hand to strike. Eyes closed, head thrown back. Behind her, a massive blurred beetle shape."

#grandeur

https://medium.com/meanwhile/life-and-d ... 3ab8d468f5

Since Lee never got around to illustrating the climax of 1963, there was little chance of his drawing this.

Jim Lee, the Korean Artist of Image / WildStorm

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