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Simon
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions.  Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:07 pm |
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I've just read the first few issues of this. I liked it more than the X-Men one, but that may just be because I always loved the FF more than the X-Men. Also...Scioli includes the... ...which is an unexpected treat; as is Scioli's use of the little "It happened in FF #76" captions.  He also implies that... ...Franklin Richards is really Namor's biological son... ...which is an interesting take on things. The Watcher is the framing device, as in the X-Men one, and things kind of chug along in a kind of 'reader's digest' way. I guess that's the nature of this concept, and it's a bit unsatisfying. I like it but don't love it. It's fun in a way, but also kind of irritating. Also... ...the trial of Reed Richards after the death of Galactus omits one really important character. I wonder if you can guess who?  I'll read it until the end because I like it more than I dislike it.
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Jason Michael
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:07 pm |
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Nominated IMWAN's "Wet Blanket" for 2021
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Isn't it only two issues?
Also, I really enjoyed it. For some reason the first issue was a bit of a slog, so I could only read a few pages at a time, but I read the second issue in one go. Looking forward to his Kirby bio.
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Ocean Doot
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:04 pm |
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Dendritic Oscillating Ontological Tesseract
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I love Scioli's aesthetic, and his intentions are always noble.
But I've learned I in fact dislike his writing.
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Simon
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:36 pm |
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Jason Michael wrote: Isn't it only two issues?
Also, I really enjoyed it. For some reason the first issue was a bit of a slog, so I could only read a few pages at a time, but I read the second issue in one go. Looking forward to his Kirby bio. I thought there was another one to come? I'm probably wrong, as I'm the Grand Vizier of Fake Fans. I don't dislike his writing, I am just a bit bamboozled by the format. I want to like it more than I actually do like it. I like the concept behind these Grand Design comics but not the execution of them. I especially enjoyed some of the little changes in it such as - Alicia being African American.
The Thing Ring(s)
The stuff with the Silver Surfer
FRanklin being Namor's kid not Reed's I disliked - The focus on the Illuminati
The stuff with the Ultimate Nullifier I still liked it more than disliked it.
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"They'll bite your finger off given a chance" - Junkie Luv (regarding Zebras)
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Ocean Doot
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:16 am |
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Dendritic Oscillating Ontological Tesseract
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Simon wrote: I like the concept behind these Grand Design comics but not the execution of them.
. Exactly where I'm at.
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Simon
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:52 am |
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I'm still surprised by what each writer chooses to change or omit. The Ultimate Nullifier stuff in this one really annoyed me, even though the things Scioli implied about Franklin's true parentage intrigued me. I disliked the Galactus story being changed in such a fundamental way - for no reason I could figure out - while the stuff with Franklin seemed like an interesting question to pose because of what was going on in those 60's stories. It was done clumsily, IMO, and he could've posed the same question just by having a scene where it was implied Sue and Namor had done the deed rather than adding the 'baby with gills' stuff.
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"They'll bite your finger off given a chance" - Junkie Luv (regarding Zebras)
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Ocean Doot
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:07 pm |
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Dendritic Oscillating Ontological Tesseract
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Bottom line: Scioli is a fool.
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Marcus
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:39 pm |
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Linda
IMWAN Admin |
Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:59 pm |
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Helpful Librarian
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It's pointless. (So, a perfect discussion topic for IMWAN.)
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Marcus
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:41 pm |
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Ocean Doot
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:04 pm |
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Dendritic Oscillating Ontological Tesseract
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If we all have a little John Byrne part of our brains, the Grand Design projects seem to kick mine awake. Specifically the Byrne who got mad at that Lord of the Rings director for saying it was a puzzle and he had to put the pieces together. Then Byrne would rant, "I thought Tolkien already did that!"
In interviews, you can see Pisko and Scioli talking about the challenge of taking all the continuity pieces and putting them together. Yeah, dudes, you're doing comic book adaptations of stuff that was already comic books in the first place. I don't think it's as hard as you're making it.
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Linda
IMWAN Admin |
Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:24 pm |
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Helpful Librarian
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I'm sure that Sisko and Spicoli meant well and did their very best.
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Junkie Luv
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:41 pm |
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As dull and repetitive as they are
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Jason Michael
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:37 pm |
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Nominated IMWAN's "Wet Blanket" for 2021
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Marcus wrote: I skimmed the first issue and I’m not nuts about the changes plus the panels are soooo small. I think part of the reason the panels are so small is because the two issues will be collected in a Marvel Treasury Edition over-sized book. Of course, Marvel's business model compels them to first publish in a regular comic to maximize profits. Scioli's art should look much better at that size. Won't change the content, of course, if you don't like it. I think the Treasury Edition version will also contain a reprint of Stan and Jack's Fantastic Four # 51, recolored by Scioli.
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Marcus
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:07 pm |
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Marcus
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:21 pm |
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Simon
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:42 pm |
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Marcus wrote: Junkie Luv wrote: Franklin has gills? See Simon's spoilers upthread for the answer. ...which may surprise you!  Yes, Spicoli adds a scene where the newborn Franklin Richards has gills. Ben notices them and Reed says "It's as I feared" and Sue looks very concerned for one panel before Reed concludes with "He's a mutant". Sue is plainly relieved that he's drawn this conclusion rather than the conclusion the reader is being invited to draw...because Spicoli makes it very obvious that he wants us to think Namor being Franklin's biological Dad is a distinct possibility. He really emphasises Sue & Namor's romance and her indecision over whether she should remain with Reed - who represents stability and certainty - or throw caution to the wind (tide?) and run off with undersea bad-boy Namor. There's even a scene where she writes Reed a 'Dear John' letter but then throws it away in tears because she knows if she goes with Namor Johnny will never forgive her for it, etc. He basically represents Sue as being deeply conflicted about her whole relationship with Reed, which is another weird aspect of this comic. I don't know that Stan and Jack ever used Namor as anything other than a sort of bad example. Namor was obsessed with Sue and kidnapped her (via hypno fish). If that's not a red flag I don't know what is. Admittedly he was being controlled by The Puppet Master at the time but Namor was still generally stalkerish when it came to Sue Storm regardless. I'm not saying these comics are masterpieces, just that they're interesting. I don't read that many things nowadays and these grabbed me because they're covering areas of MU continuity I actually know and care about. I grew up reading B&W 60's reprints so the 60's FF, X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk and Avengers are 'my' versions of them. I love the late 70's and early 80's versions which I was also reading as a kid but the 60's versions seem more primal in some way. They're the original source material for entire MU mythos. As I said, I enjoy the concept more than the execution. I'd like to see what more polished writers and artists could do with this idea. It's really just a kind of Elseworlds thing, but done on a 'big picture' scale. I'd actually enjoy seeing Byrne do one of these, as his propensity to 'fix' stuff would be a boon in the context of the Grand Design format. It'd be good to see what a writer like Straczynski, Brubaker or Moore could do with this idea. If you paired them with a decent artist I'm sure they could come up with something really enjoyable.
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"They'll bite your finger off given a chance" - Junkie Luv (regarding Zebras)
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Marcus
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:04 pm |
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Simon wrote: Marcus wrote: Junkie Luv wrote: Franklin has gills? See Simon's spoilers upthread for the answer. ...which may surprise you! Yes, Spicoli adds a scene where the newborn Franklin Richards has gills. Ben notices them and Reed says "It's as I feared" and Sue looks very concerned for one panel before Reed concludes with "He's a mutant". Sue is plainly relieved that he's drawn this conclusion rather than the conclusion the reader is being invited to draw...because Spicoli makes it very obvious that he wants us to think Namor being Franklin's biological Dad is a distinct possibility. He really emphasises Sue & Namor's romance and her indecision over whether she should remain with Reed - who represents stability and certainty - or throw caution to the wind (tide?) and run off with undersea bad-boy Namor. There's even a scene where she writes Reed a 'Dear John' letter but then throws it away in tears because she knows if she goes with Namor Johnny will never forgive her for it, etc. He basically represents Sue as being deeply conflicted about her whole relationship with Reed, which is another weird aspect of this comic. I don't know that Stan and Jack ever used Namor as anything other than a sort of bad example. Namor was obsessed with Sue and kidnapped her (via hypno fish). If that's not a red flag I don't know what is. Admittedly he was being controlled by The Puppet Master at the time but Namor was still generally stalkerish when it came to Sue Storm regardless. I'm not saying these comics are masterpieces, just that they're interesting. I don't read that many things nowadays and these grabbed me because they're covering areas of MU continuity I actually know and care about. I grew up reading B&W 60's reprints so the 60's FF, X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk and Avengers are 'my' versions of them. I love the late 70's and early 80's versions which I was also reading as a kid but the 60's versions seem more primal in some way. They're the original source material for entire MU mythos. As I said, I enjoy the concept more than the execution. I'd like to see what more polished writers and artists could do with this idea. It's really just a kind of Elseworlds thing, but done on a 'big picture' scale. I'd actually enjoy seeing Byrne do one of these, as his propensity to 'fix' stuff would be a boon in the context of the Grand Design format. It'd be good to see what a writer like Straczynski, Brubaker or Moore could do with this idea. If you paired them with a decent artist I'm sure they could come up with something really enjoyable. Scioli's "fix" is reprehensible and under cuts the family aspect of the FF.
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Linda
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:42 pm |
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Simon
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:44 am |
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Linda wrote: Please award yourself a golden IMWAN.
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Hanzo the Razor
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:00 am |
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Jason Michael wrote: Marcus wrote: I skimmed the first issue and I’m not nuts about the changes plus the panels are soooo small. I think part of the reason the panels are so small is because the two issues will be collected in a Marvel Treasury Edition over-sized book. Of course, Marvel's business model compels them to first publish in a regular comic to maximize profits. Scioli's art should look much better at that size. Won't change the content, of course, if you don't like it. I think the Treasury Edition version will also contain a reprint of Stan and Jack's Fantastic Four # 51, recolored by Scioli. He did that with Go-Bots, which was printed at regular size with no treasury planned. I think it’s just a thing he’s into.
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Ocean Doot
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Post subject: Fantastic Four: Grand Design...opinions. Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 am |
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Dendritic Oscillating Ontological Tesseract
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Scioli is a monster. There, I've said it.
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