..."The Things We Do For Love" by 10cc.

Discuss, and/or challenge.

Hard for me to debate that one. I really liked that song when it came out and nostalgia keeps it strong in my mind.

If you go on the premise that pop songs are often love songs, then this one leads the pack even more so. It covers the range of love and emotions.

Excellent song. Wouldn't call it the best. It's not by Billy Joel or Neil Finn so really it can't be.

-Comp

Like Leo, I think it's a tough call, but "Things We do For Love" would definitely rank very high up on the list!

Personally, I think "God Only Knows" by The Beach Boys is the Best Pop Song EVER!

I would also nominate "Oh Babe, What Would You Say" by Hurricane Smith, "Go All The Way" by The Raspberries and "No Matter What" by Badfinger as potential candidates.

For Best Pop Album EVER - I'd have to go with "Revolver" by The Beatles, but I'd also nominate "Pet Sounds" by The Beach Boys and "Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones, Ltd." by The Monkees

For Pop Albums (that I've heard), Fleetwood Mac's Rumours is near the top. When you figure how many of the songs from Rumours actually made it onto regular radio rotation and still get played, it's pretty amazing.

I dunno, Leo. I think "Rumors" is one of the greatest albums ever, but I wouldn't classify it as a pop album. To me, it's a rock album. There's a depth and maturity to both the songwriting and the instrumentation that puts it in a different category than "pop". It's the same thing that (again, to me) seperates "Revolver" and "Abbey Road" by The Beatles. The former is a "pop" album, the latter is a "rock" album.

You think the album that had She Said She Said and Tomorrow Never Knows is a pop album, but the one with Here Comes The Sun and Maxwell's Silver Hammer is a rock album?

I realize that's looking at the extremes of both albums, but it's dangerous territory to try to apply the same nomenclature to the Beatles that we apply to everybody else - The Beatles were that different.

Walking on Sunshine – Katrina and the Waves

I think for its time, Rumors was on the rock side of pop (where pop was split between disco and rock.) All four of its releases reached the top 10 on the pop charts. Even the rejected song ("Silver Springs") became a pop hit later.

Rumors played into the AOR station format because of all the great songs on the album. That's the great thing about it is it's so good it crosses genres.

It's just one bun's opinion, Hank.

To be fair, The Beatles almost always infused elements of both into their recordings, but to my ears there is a definite switch from pop to rock that takes place in 1968 (most noticably on the "Hey Jude/Revolution" single, but also on the LP "The Beatles" where a wide variety of musical genres are explored). Their output in 1969 and 1970 is almost entirely what I would classify as "rock". I dunno. Maybe it's just me.

The argument could be made that rock, as it is known today, was defined by the Beatles. They merged blues and pop (and any other musical style they could get their ears on) to give us the rock format... With the help of some of their contemporaries.

Another song that I rank up there with The Things We Do for Love is Dan Fogelberg's Same Old Lang Syne. One of the things I like about it is the imagery in the words.

It has a simple melody, but catchy.

When it came out I was a pre-teen, but Fogelberg crafted the words well enough that I could understand much of what he was conveying.

Taking an absurd turn, Dana Carvey's Choppin' Broccoli is an example of a good power ballad.
http://www.danacarvey.net/broccoli.wav

My favourite pop single of all time is "Bus Stop" by the Hollies.

I was actually going to mention that song. Like "The Things We Do for Love," it was written by Graham Gouldman, to my mind the greatest songwriter of the '60s who wasn't with a popular band. I LOVE the staccato structure of the first verse:


Gouldman wrote an unbelievable body of work,even into the '80s. I have the 45 for Right Between The Eyes, the song his band Wax put out around '86 or so, and it's as good as anything he's done, shy of the aforementioned songs and For Your Love.

I was unaware of Mr. Gouldman's connection to those songs. But I absolutely love, LOVE, LOVE the song "Bridge To Your Heart" from the Wax LP "American English"!!!!

Wow, Frank, you need to branch out your mastery of '60s music trivia if you don't know the works of Graham Gouldman....

But yeah, the hits he wrote include:

Bus Stop - The Hollies
For Your Love - The Yardbirds
Heart Full Of Soul - The Yardbirds
I'm Not In Love - 10cc
Listen People - Herman's Hermits
Look Through Any Window - The Hollies
No Milk Today - Herman's Hermits
Right Between The Eyes - Wax
Stop! Stop! Stop! - The Hollies
The Things We Do For Love - 10cc
You Stole My Love - The Yardbirds

Not a shabby body of work, IMO.

You could be right! While I'm pretty familiar with the music of The Yardbirds, The Hollies and 10cc I'm less familiar with who wrote all of it. Back to the books for me!

I had no idea about the Gouldman connection either. I figured "Bus Stop" was written by Hicks/Clarke/Nash.

Thanks for the music history lesson guys! Mr. Gouldman wrote some great tunes (but.. not sure about "Don't Squeeze Me Like Toothpaste"...see the site below for all his tunes).

http://www.johnbruinsma.nl/songbookindices.html

Yeah...that was the influence of his fellow members of 10cc - Eric Stewart, Lol Creme and Kevin Godley. Most of 10cc's stuff was parody of earlier music ("Donna" is a doo-wop pastiche, "Rubber Bullets" is "Jailhouse Rock" if the riot squad got called in) with lyrics too clever for their own good. Once Godley & Creme left to direct videos, Gouldman & Stewart's 10cc started making pop gems free of irony. Or at least with much less irony.

I've got to disagree strongly here, not with the albums you mention but with the principle. The difference between pop and rock, I think, is primarily one of style, the latter being more guitar-based, louder, harder, etc. Pop/rock is more melodic. The distinction is not one of maturity. In general, it's pop/rock I find more mature in terms of lyrics, music, depth, etc., and there are exceptions of course.

So I strongly object to the assertion that pop/rock is an inherently lesser form, which does seem what you are saying here. It's a different form, and some of the worst stuff ever written is in pop/rock, but also some of the best. And while certainly you know Beatles a lot better than I do, I've never heard the Beatles song I would not categorize as pop before rock. Ditto Rumours, which I am more familiar with.

-Comp

As I said above (and in the post you quoted), it's just my opinion. Your own mileage may vary. I will point out that nowhere did I say that one genre was better or worse than the other, so your disagreement with me there has more to do with your own biases than what I actually wrote.

Well, you DID say that Rumours, as a rock album, was deeper and more mature than Mac's previous work, then directly compared it to Abbey Road for the same reason. I don't think Comp made too big of a stretch there in reading your intent.

But hey, not my fight.