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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:13 pm 
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http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnew ... =193700227

>> 'Universal' Next-Gen DVD Players On Way

The missing consumer link in the move to HDTV is a universal DVD player that would accommodate both the new HD DVD and Blue-ray formats. Such a player could be coming soon, thanks to Broadcom Corp., which on Thursday unveiled a system-on-a-chip (SoC) solution that aims to be a foundation for companies looking to build dual-format player.

The Broadcom single-chip BCM7440 Blue-ray/HD DVD SoC features a software stack complaint with both of the warring DVD specifications.

Will there be a universal player, Doug Grearson, Broadcom senior marketing manager, was asked. "The short answer is, absolutely," Grearson said. "It helps that the two formats are fairly close to begin with. Once you can read the disks you have reduced it to reading bitstreams."

Grearson noted that the video and audio compression solutions used by each format are virtually the same.

Broadcom has packed a brace of technology solutions into the chip, which integrates a multiple-core MIPS architecture, a multi-stream HD video decoder, and dedicated graphics engines. Also included in the SoC are "DSP-based audio processors, a security processor, DDR2 interfaces integrated video and audio outputs and an array of system and network connectivity interfaces," according to the Broadcom announcement.

However, companies looking to design dual-format players will be challenged by the design of the different physical disks. HD DVD is close to the current DVD disk standard, while Blu-ray's disk design is a completely new technology, Grearson said.

Regardless, Grearson expects to see universal players appear on the market sometime next year. <<


Now the questions are ... will these new players also accomodate CD, DVD, SACD and DVD-A? And will the companies be releasing hi-rez audio content on either of the new video formats?

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:29 pm 
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Isn't it sad we even need a universal player?:(

Just like the industry ruined a good format with a war (DVDA/SACD), now their set to ruin HD with this ridiculous format war. Boo!

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:29 pm 
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http://news.com.com/New+disc+may+sway+D ... g=nefd.top

>> New disc may sway DVD wars

By Richard Siklos
The New York Times

Published: January 3, 2007, 9:45 PM PST

Consumers wary of buying new high-definition DVD players because of a technology war reminiscent of the days of Betamax versus VHS will soon have a new kind of DVD that might make the decision less daunting.

Warner Bros., which helped popularize the DVD more than a decade ago, plans to announce next week a single videodisc that can play films and television programs in both Blu-ray and HD DVD, the rival DVD technologies.

Warner Bros., a division of Time Warner, plans to formally announce the new disc, which it is calling a Total HD disc, at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas on Tuesday.

Two rival camps introduced high-definition DVD players last year: a consortium called Blu-ray, backed by Sony and others, and a group called HD DVD, backed by Toshiba and Microsoft. Retail and media executives say this clash of corporate titans and their incompatible machines has left some consumers bewildered and has slowed the introduction of what is intended to be the next great thing in home entertainment.

Executives at Time Warner and its Hollywood subsidiary hope to spur sales of new DVD players and movies by gaining the support of retailers and cajoling rival studios into making their film and television libraries available in both formats on a single disc.

In addition to reviving the ghost of the war that marked the introduction of videocassettes in the 1980s, the high-definition battle has been exacerbated by the decision of several major studios to support only one of the technologies.

Thus, for instance, a copy of 20th Century Fox's Ice Age: The Meltdown is available only on Blu-ray, while Universal's The Break-Up can be viewed only on a disc and player built with HD DVD technology.

Barry M. Meyer, the chairman and chief executive of Warner Bros., said in an interview that the company came up with the Total HD disc after concluding that neither Blu-ray nor HD DVD was going the way of Betamax anytime soon.

"The next best thing is to recognize that there will be two formats and to make that not a negative for the consumer," Meyer said. "We felt that the most significant constituency for us to satisfy was the consumer first, and the retailer second. The retailer wants to sell hardware and doesn't want to be forced into stocking two formats for everything. This is ideal for them."

In a world besotted with gadgetry, few consumer products have generated as much excitement--and head-scratching--as high-definition television. Flat-screen, high-definition TVs have been flying off the shelves for the last year and are now as common in homes as coffee pots. Yet few people are actually watching superclear high-definition programming.

Part of the disconnect is the lack of high-definition programming on cable and satellite television, and the additional outlay for decoder boxes and premium channels needed to get it. The rival movie player technologies have further blurred the outlook for high definition. Richard Greenfield, an analyst at Pali Capital, predicted in a recent report that this would be the first year since the introduction of the DVD that consumer spending on the discs would decline, putting pressure on the studios that rely heavily on them for profits.

For now, Sony; Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, which is owned by private equity firms in partnership with the Comcast and Sony; 20th Century Fox, a division of the News Corp.; and Walt Disney Pictures are all exclusively releasing their DVDs in Blu-ray.

Universal Studios, which is owned by General Electric, is releasing only in HD DVD. Warner and Paramount Pictures, a division of Viacom, are issuing DVDs in both formats.

Behind these allegiances are complex strategic questions revolving around everything from manufacturing costs to profit margins, debates over each format's technical strengths and weaknesses, and how these players relate to Microsoft and Sony's video-game strategies.

(Blu-ray players are built into the new Sony PlayStation 3, while Microsoft is selling HD DVD drives that attach to its Xbox 360.)

Another wrinkle is plans by LG Electronics, and possibly other gadget makers attending the Las Vegas conference, to announce new DVD players with drives for both formats; however, such players will most likely be initially more expensive than other players.

Jeffrey L. Bewkes, the president of Time Warner, said the Total HD disc has a better chance of catching on than dual players. Research commissioned by Warner indicates that consumers are willing to pay several dollars more than current high-definition DVDs for a disc that works on both players. At the Web site for Best Buy, Warner's Superman Returns DVD was selling yesterday for $19.99 in its standard format, $29.99 for Blu-ray and $34.99 for HD DVD.

Still, it is not clear whether news of Warner's Total HD disc would convince the studio heads who are backing one format or the other to release their wares in both. Sony, of course, has placed a big bet on Blu-ray's success and does not want to relive the sting of Betamax's defeat. The number of studios committed solely to Blu-ray has been seen as a competitive edge, particularly because HD DVD came to market several months ahead of Blu-ray.

And HD DVD's boosters say they doubt gaming fans who have been snapping up the just-introduced PlayStation 3 will take advantage of its built-in Blu-ray player and buy movies as well as video games.

In recent interviews, executives at Fox and Disney were unequivocal in their support for Blu-ray. They said they believed that releasing DVDs in both formats would only prolong confusion and the emergence of a winning format. "I think the fastest way to end the format war is through decisiveness and strength," said Bob Chapek, the president of Buena Vista Worldwide Entertainment, the home video arm of Walt Disney.

Like other Blu-ray proponents and partners, Chapek said that he favors Blu-ray because of its greater storage capacity and other attributes. HD DVD offers the same vivid picture by storing less information on its disc, which means fewer minutes of video and other features. However, among its perceived advantages, HD-DVD players are less expensive. (Both formats can play standard DVDs.)

Because of manufacturing complexities, the Total HD disc will not contain a standard format version, said Kevin Tsujihara, the president of Warner Brothers Home Entertainment Group. However, several months ago the company filed patents for a new disc incorporating all three formats, which it could produce in the future.

Tsujihara described the new disc as an elegant way for studios to make their content available more widely "in a way that is not conceding defeat" for the format they have been backing.

In the short term, Total HD would actually add to the number of formats retailers will have to stock, raising it from three to four. However, Irynne V. MacKay, senior vice president for entertainment products at Circuit City, said she supported the idea because it took pressure off consumers puzzling over which format to invest in. "The simpler the future is for us, the better," said MacKay. <<

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:24 pm 
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No thanks. I'm a former "early adopter" who's quite content to sit out the HD video wars until a clear victor emerges...

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:50 pm 
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I'm sticking with VHS and 8-tracks.... :dizzy:


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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:16 am 
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I could give two craps about this. My DVDs are fine for now. Blue-ray my ass. Remember Video Discs anyone? I'm not comparing just joking!

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:21 am 
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I bet on the wrong horse twice with Betamax and Laserdisc, so I'm still at VHS stage. All these competing new formats in audio and video make both the consumers and the manufacturers lose out.

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:08 am 
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Invisible Pedestrian wrote:
I could give two craps about this. My DVDs are fine for now. Blue-ray my ass. Remember Video Discs anyone? I'm not comparing just joking!


I hear ya!!

I don't wanna get stuck with the DVD equivalent of betamax, so DVD is just fine for me for now. Besides, if they continue to make DVDs like the new James Bond remasters, who needs hi-def?? The new DTS upgrades are breathtaking!!

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:11 am 
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Seth wrote:
I'm sticking with VHS and 8-tracks.... :dizzy:

I'm still loyal to my Edison Cylinders... :luddite:

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:31 pm 
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http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2079911,00.asp

>> LG Reveals Blu-Ray/HD DVD Player Pricing

By Robert Heron

LAS VEGAS - LG Electronics jumpstarted the 2007 Consumer Electronics Show (CES) a day early with a press conference that included a demonstration of the company's highly anticipated Blu-ray Disc (BD) and HD DVD combo player that is scheduled to arrive in retail stores in March.

The price? Only $1,199, roughly double the price of conventional next-generation DVD players.

The BH100's disc reading system incorporates two laser diodes - one for regular DVD discs and one for HD DVD/BD media. LG mentioned that an optional third laser could be added in order to support CD audio discs although this third pickup won't be included in the BH100 at launch.

In addition to dual lasers, the BH100's laser pickup system utilizes separate lenses for BD media and DVD/HD DVD media respectively. With all of this lens and laser shuffling, LG is claiming the BH100 will offer 25 second load times for BD movies and 30 second load times for HD DVD movies. Judging by LG's live demonstration of a HD DVD/BD disc swap with the BH100, this estimate appeared to be accurate.

The BH100 fully supports the features of the BD format including Blu-ray Disc Java, allowing for full use of interactive and other features that may be included with a BD movie. Unfortunately, the BH100's HD DVD interactive feature support is non-existent as the format's iHD technology is not supported. While the BH100 appeared to play HD DVD movies just fine, popup menus appeared quite generic as the on-screen chapter selection lacked the thumbnail images seen on other HD DVD players.

The BH100 A/V connection options include an HDMI v1.2 port as well as component video output. An Ethernet port was present on the BH100 players demonstrated at the LG conference. Audio outputs in addition to HDMI include digital optical (Toslink) and 5.1 analog. LG confirmed that the BH100 will support 1080-line output resolution at 24p, 30p, and 60i refresh rates.

The player's support of the HDMI v1.2 specification instead of the more recent v1.3 specification means the BH100 won't be able to pass raw Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD audio streams to a compatible receiver. Also, the BH100 lacks an RS-232 port or 12V triggers for use with advanced home theater control systems.

The all-black BH100 features illuminated touch sensor buttons complete with sound effects, on the top of the player providing easy access to basic playback controls. The uncluttered face of the BH100 features a single drive tray door, illuminated information display, and an illuminated LG logo.

LG also demonstrated the GGW-H10N Super Multi Blue Drive ($1,199) that will bring multi-HD disc support to the PC. Available in March, the GGW-H10N will be capable of reading or writing to Blu-ray, DVD, and CD media. HD DVD media will be read-only with the GGW-H10N. For BD media, the GGW-H10N will support dual-layer 50GB discs with recording speeds up to 4x - about 23-24 minutes to burn a full single layer BD-R disc (25GB). <<

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:43 pm 
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I suspect the dual format players will solve the format war problem. At this point I see 2 big negatives:

1. I can't afford an hd set of reasonable size.
2. DRM.

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:37 pm 
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From what I understand, this is a Blu-Ray player that ALSO plays HD-DVD, only that it doesn't support many of the HD-DVD special menu features... making it a Blu-Ray player that LAMELY plays HD-DVDs. It supports playback of HD DVD main VIDEO files, but does not support advanced HD DVD features or iHD. This LG player will actually cost you MORE money than if you were to go out and buy a Blu-ray player and an HD DVD player seperately. :ohno:


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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:28 am 
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LG is also known as a budget brand, I would be really hesitant to plunk down $1200 for anything they made.

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:07 pm 
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I can't find the thread where this was previously discussed, so I'm posting it here. Sly Soft Any DVD now has a version specifically for cracking/copying hd's & numerous posts on the CD Freaks forum say it works flawlessly (& also in the background like the regular Any DVD).

Concept to marketplace came REALLY fast on this one!

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:29 pm 
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Blu-ray is going to win the format war very soon. It's already outselling HD-DVD 2-1 and the gap is widening weekly. As soon as Universal signs off on Blu-ray (the last major holdout) HD-DVD will be toast.


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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:27 pm 
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hbsbla wrote:
Blu-ray is going to win the format war very soon. It's already outselling HD-DVD 2-1 and the gap is widening weekly.


Source? I've heard very different things regarding sales...

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:52 pm 
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Okay, answered my own question... the widely reported 2-1 figure is taken from a fairly limited Nielsen VideoScan data set.

Here's a more informative article I found on this topic:

PlayStation 3 Gives Blu-Ray Disc Edge in DVD Format War
Tuesday, February 13, 2007

By Mark Hachman
PCMAG.com

As a former business reporter, I tend to believe in the value of numbers: gross revenue, profit, inventory turnover, et cetera.

But numbers can also be misleading, as the pro-forma "profits before all the bad stuff" earnings statements proved during the height of the dot-com boom.

Right now, the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD next-generation DVD camps are engaged in a brutal battle for market share, where only one is expected to be the winner.

Capturing a critical mass of consumer dollars also means capturing the consumer's faith that a particular format will be the winner. No one wants to sink money into the next Betamax.

All this means that next-generation DVD sales numbers are becoming more critical, both as an indicator of actual sales as well as a guide to what your fellow shoppers might be thinking.

Currently, the only real source of independent sales data on next-generation DVD sales has come from Nielsen VideoScan, a member of the well-known Nielsen family of companies that generate the ratings used to determine the popularity of TV programs.

Nielsen has tracked sales numbers since November, and provided weekly data to industry trade publications on a week-to-week basis. However, the firm kindly sent over a spreadsheet of all of their numbers, [which clearly show Blu-ray taking a huge chunk of market share from HD DVD since November 2006.]

Normally, this would be enough to justify a news story, as others have done. However, I think the numbers make more sense in this more informal context, primarily because Nielsen has refused to comment on or to analyze the numbers.

That means I have to do my own analysis, which is difficult to do in an otherwise objective news story.

Probably the most telling point is the "inception-to-date" figures, which tally up all of the sales for each format.

Although the numbers seem to indicate a considerable decline on the part of HD DVD in favor of Blu-Ray, this isn't true at all: to date (Jan. 28), 53.3 percent of all next-gen DVDs have been in the HD DVD format, compared to 46.7 percent for Blu-ray.

This contrasts quite strongly with reports that the Blu-Ray format is widely outselling HD DVD.


Figures from another analyst firm, The NPD Group, which also tracks U.S. retail sales, also seem to support this: sales of hardware players (not movies) from April through December 2006 also give HD DVD a slight edge, 52 percent to 48 percent for Blu-ray.

Unfortunately, they are reserving the most recent data for their paying clients.

As the graphic clearly shows, the momentum seems to have recently swung in Blu-Ray's favor. However, a few issues still need clarification.

The gift certificate conundrum

As many have pointed out, Sony has been the principal backer of Blu-ray, and also the designer of the PlayStation 3 games console, which uses a Blu-ray drive.

With each console, Sony has bundled a copy of the Blu-ray movie "Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby," together with a gift certificate for $15 off the purchase of a second Blu-ray movie.

Microsoft, on the other hand, also offers an HD DVD drive as a $199 add-on for its Xbox 360, which it has bundled with a copy of the HD DVD movie "King Kong."

According to Erin Crawford, the general manager of Nielsen VideoScan, the bundling of "Talledega Nights" — and, by inference, "King Kong" — was not included in the Nielsen numbers, as it does not represent a conscious buying choice on the part of the consumer.

However, since a consumer must make the choice to buy another disc, the effects of the gift certificate would influence the Nielsen numbers.

Crawford declined to estimate how many disc sales could have been a direct result of the gift certificate. Also, the Blu-ray sales do not include the sales of games.

We do know the number of PS3s that have been sold to date within the U.S.: 687,300, at least through January 11, according to NPD. But we don't know what the potential effects of the gift certificates are, as we don't know the size of the respective player markets.

(Although it doesn't affect this issue, NPD also noted that 4.5 million Xbox 360s have been sold to date, 6.7 million Sony PSPs have been sold, as well as 9.2 million Nintendo DSes.)

Also, since Wal-Mart does not break out sales of any particular category, Wal-Mart sales of either Blu-Ray or HD DVD discs aren't included in either the Nielsen or NPD numbers.

Would a typical Wal-Mart shopper buy a next-generation DVD disc?

If we're speaking stereotypically, probably not. On the other hand, it seems ridiculous to assume that the world's largest retailer wouldn't have an effect on sales.

(A Wal-Mart spokeswoman refused to comment, even to indicate which format was outselling the other.)

I think it's safe to say that the gift certificate is the reason for the sudden spike in Blu-ray disc sales, even if Crawford will not. As this USA Today article notes:

"Most people spend their gift cards in January and February. And because retailers can't count gift card sales until the cards are redeemed, those sales dollars are pushed out of December into the next year. Gift card sales now represent 5% of total holiday sales, so those dollars are having a significant impact on retailers' business in the months after Christmas. About 40% of card redemptions are made in the first week after Christmas. But the rest comes in January or early February."

This seems to be consistent with the curves as indicated by the graphs: a dramatic run-up in Blu-ray sales in January, followed by a flattening of the curve in late January. The PlayStation3 was launched on Nov. 17 in the U.S., about the time the Blu-Ray sales begin to head upward.

So what effect has the PS3 had on Blu-ray sales? Again, it's difficult to tell. Anita Frazier, who covers the gaming market for NPD, indicated that consumers are in fact using PS3s as high-definition DVD players:

"While I don't believe the initial PS3 sales were motivated by those wishing to get a Blu-Ray player, I do believe it's a legitimate function of the machine and should be counted toward the install base of Blu-Ray DVD players," Frazier said in an email. "Likewise, sales of the Microsoft HD DVD player should count toward that format's install base as well. What is interesting is that since it is a separate purchase from the Xbox 360, it's a conscious decision motivated by the desire to obtain an HD DVD player specifically."

February/March trends will be telling

If this is true and the gift certificates indicate an aberration, rather than a trend, then I would think we would see the Blu-ray numbers continue to flatten, followed by a decline, complemented by a resurgence in the HD DVD unit share. (The assumption here, of course, is that the early adopters sprung for a PS3, and the rest of the world is waiting for a price drop.)

On the other hand, it's also possible that those customers who purchased a Blu-ray disc for their PlayStation3 "player" will continue to use it as such, fleshing out or replacing their current DVD library with Blu-ray alternatives. This, clearly, is Sony's intention.

Microsoft competes with Sony in the games console space; is there room for both movie formats, as well?

There's certainly room for a hybrid solution, as the Blu-ray/HD DVD combo player indicates. But I don't think that there's any desire on the part of the studios to encode and press two formats, as this quote from a Universal Studios executive at the recent CES show revealed:

"I've learned one thing in my industry, and that's never say never," said Jerry Pierce, senior vice president for technology at Universal Studios, when asked if Universal would support the Warner Bros. plan for a hybrid disc. "I think it's an interesting idea, [but] a stupid idea. How do you package it? What, is one half red and one half is blue? Where do you put it on the shelf?"

So which format should you invest in? Even as one of the few with all of Nielsen's numbers, I can't yet rule out one format or the other.

The data already factors in the price of each player, video quality, number of titles, et cetera, and gives HD DVD the edge; on top of that, I think that the knowledge of the effects of the gift certificate is now known among the enthusiast community.

And while that may sound like a little too much inside baseball, I do think those numbers will have an effect on some buying decisions. Buying the losing format isn't like voting for the losing candidate when the other has clearly won; it's money down the drain.

In my mind, neither format has reached a critical mass, and until then, the horse race is wide open.

What's critical mass? In my mind, probably one of the following conditions: either one format holds an 80 percent market share for three months; or, one format holds a two-thirds market share for six months.


For now, though, that hybrid LG player looks awfully enticing.

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:04 pm 
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The Blu-Ray camp has been printing propaganda that looks like something offficial but is misleading. This "white paper" was given out at the CES and I recieved a copy from TWICE magazine a few weeks ago.

Reading that "paper" you'd think Blu-Ray is a slam dunk but it was written to support Blu-Ray published by the Blu-Ray camp.

One reason why we won't know the real truth for awhile yet.

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:09 pm 
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I'm still thinking the dual format players are the solution, which would make the format war a '"who cares".

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:01 am 
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Boney Fingers Jones

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I wish one of these darn formats would win asap so we can get on with HD on discs without worrying about which player to buy.

I have the XBOX HD player and it fit seamlessly into my Home Theater so for the time being I'm set but I would jump at a Denon Universal Player.

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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:23 am 
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Geff R. wrote:
LG is also known as a budget brand, I would be really hesitant to plunk down $1200 for anything they made.


The machine is retailing for $1499 here in Canada. :shock:

Saw one in a store yesterday. It wasn't turned on (how's that for marketing).

Incredibly light weight. The only metal that I could see were the inputs on the back. Never seen so much plastic in my life. Scary.


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 Post subject: Universal HD video players on the way
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:35 am 
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I love Music & hate brickwalled audio

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Geff R. wrote:
I can't find the thread where this was previously discussed, so I'm posting it here. Sly Soft Any DVD now has a version specifically for cracking/copying hd's & numerous posts on the CD Freaks forum say it works flawlessly (& also in the background like the regular Any DVD).

Concept to marketplace came REALLY fast on this one!


As of today, Any DVD HD also now claims to be able to to rip Blue Ray.

Again, goes to show that the only folks drm hurts are consumers; the pirates are rarely far behind on cracking it.

BTW, I highly recomend Any DVD, it also removes cd copyguards & makes your pc dvd player region free.
http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvd.html


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