See this post for details on what this is all about and this post for up to date results.

The FINAL FOUR is Here!
Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 4, Match 2

Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. The Godfather

Steven Spielberg’s Raiders of the Lost Ark is one of the most popular action adventure films ever made, a blockbuster few others can match, featuring a charismatic star and many memorable scenes.

Francis Ford Coppola’s legendary family epic is one of the most influential films of the last 40 years, changing the face of gangster movies forever and cementing its place as a cultural landmark.

VS.

VOTE!

The Godfather. As fun as Raiders is, it just doesn't hold the same weight as Da GF. Great story, great direction, great actors, great performances, highly influential.

Godfather. Raiders isnt even as god as Jaws!

Raiders. Raiders is fun, action packed, and watchable again and again. Godfather is slow, plodding, and boring. Excellent performances throughout, with bits of excitement, but overall the movie is dull to me. I couldn't watch it again, even knowing you're "supposed" to like it that much.

What Jeff said. Raiders is what movies are supposed to be. The opening scene alone is worth the price of admission. The Godfather is...a slow gangster movie. With some good performances.

This is taking on some attributes of farce.

Life is the farce which everyone has to perform.

For once, i'd like some a fun movie to win one of these "Top movies" list, instead of what is "supposed" to.

May the farce be with you.

The Godfather is just plain the better movie. I love Raiders. Always have, always will. Consider it among my favorites of all time and have voted for it throughout this tournament, but all of its strengths turn into weaknesses in a match like this. It’s big, loud, obvious, and pure puffery. It lacks the dramatic character arcs of The Godfather, the rich saga of trust and betrayal and good and evil. Michael Corleone’s slow falling from grace, from war hero to guy just trying to do right by his father to brutal, thoughtless thug is far beyond the chase/exposition/chase/exposition formula of Raiders.

Spielberg takes no chances with Raiders; he opens the action adventure textbook and does it perfectly, but as entertaining as that is, it’s not particularly daring or innovative. The Godfather entertains me just as much as Raiders, but takes that other all important step – it impresses me. Coppola doesn’t always go for the easy scene or telegraphed “the audience cheers here” moment. Whereas Spielberg created some awesome set pieces, Coppola built a world.

Lifelong Raiders fan to the extreme, but I don’t feel badly about voting against it here. It does not belong in the finals. The Godfather, on the other hand, is a worthy entry.

This echoes rather familiar ...

I guess I have been voting for the better of the two movies, with an eye to crowning the boards vote for Best Film of all time.

If I was going to list my Favorite Movies-

Blues Brothers
Manhunter
Empire Strikes Back
Halloween
etc.

As a start, I would not expect many to be among my list of best movies ever:

Seven Samurai
Citizen Kane
Shawshank Redemption
The Godfather


They are completely different animals. When someone asks me what my favorite movie is, I have several answers, but the Best Movie even is on the second list, even tho my favorites to watch and rewatch is on the first.

I don't like your best movie list-and yeah, I am picking best movie, not necessarily my favorite movie, although they are tied in together more than yours. I refuse to choose movies that are techinically good, but not entertaining (less than the sum of their parts) or that are supposed to be there.

What does "supposed to be there" mean? It sounds as if you're having some sort of knee-jerk reaction to seeing critically acclaimed movies receive yet more acclaim, as if people praise them only because they are "supposed" to praise them. Maybe, just maybe, these films have been praised over the years because they deserve to be praised, lasting through the years because they have something worthwhile for each new generation of viewers to discover.

That, or people just mindlessly praise them because they're "supposed" to, I guess. That's why I praise them, after all. Because I've been told to.

Dude, it's cool that you like Raiders more and stand behind it and all that. This wouldn't be any fun if we all agreed on all these matches - and it's a great movie. But there is no need to suggest other people disagree with you because they are programmed to. It's not only mildly insulting, frankly it's pure rubbish at best.

I love Raiders, but when I watch The Godfather I KNOW it is a better movie, one of the best. I FEEL it. It leaves an IMPRESSION. It reaches me on a DEEPER EMOTIONAL LEVEL. No one is telling me to say these things, its just the way it is... fer me

I found Dude Where's My Car enormously entertaining. Laughed to hard I thought i was gonna suffocate.

Entertaining cant be the only criteria for 'best movie'.

In my opinion.

And I dont mean that from a pedantic critic perspective, just that for me a 'best movie ever' has to be about something more than chasing bad guys, or stumbling around looking for your car, or banging bridesmaids. (Wedding Crashers is another wicked entertaining movie).

You said as much in the Casablanca thread, that has " Good performances, story, message, lines. Very few dated scenes."

Story, message, characters, are all attributes of great films (and books). Raiders is a 4* movie for me, I adore it, love it, and will watch it any chance I get, but there is hardly any story, or message, and the characters are kleenex thin. It is an exciting, turn your brain off roller coaster ride, and I do love roller coasters.

That said, I totally respect your opinion, just dont call me a dumbass or microbrain if I see it differently. ( I know that you wont!!)

TOdd

Is that the hairshirt you're looking for, I am not sure, I never quite grasped that concept

Supposed to means this: (1) some people, yes, like certain things, or say they do, because they are supposed to, they;ve been told to, and so they will name that thing even if it isn't reallty something they'd notice either. some people are pretentious that way. It happens all over the place. Take fashion-they are told something this year is the hot thing and so they wear it-a year ago they would have made fun of whoever wore it and a year from now, they will do the same. (2) sometimes things get on a list because it was truly great in its time-maybe a baseball player from 1938, or a movie from 1938. Of course, in that time, there was only a couple od decades, at best, to compare it too. If you leave out silent films, even less. But because it was on the list then-the person or film or whatever-it still remains there even when there is now 70 plus years of films/players to compare to, because it was always there. Sometimes things that were great in their day, when there was less competition and less history, get surpassed. But they remain on the various lists because they should.

First of all dumbass, Dude Where's My Car is not even that good. Second of all, microbrain, I respect your opinion too.



and i am not just saying entertaining, it should be entertaining and technically good and leave an impression. Casablanca leaves that impression for me. Kane does to some extent. Godfather didn't. I saw it once. On tv. A year ago. Uncut, but with commercials. My wife fell asleep. I liked it to some extent, but found it slow. I've seen it before in a more entertaining way-sure inspired by GF, but hey, i saw them first. I like the performances, but say with Brando i am very aware it is a performance. I can't remember most of the characters names or anything but the vaguest plot. I thought the horse head scene was laughable. At the same time, I knew it was coming so it could never have the impact on me that it did on people then. Ultintimately, if I didn't know it was THE Godfather, I'd think "Decent, entertaining enough but forgettable." For my friend, they are his favorite series of movies and he loves them. For my brother in law, he stopped watching halfway through the first video, even though he was working in a security booth for 8 straight hours and all he could do was to watch movies, but he found it that boring. It's all opinon

That's great. But none of that applies here. If you think The Godfather continues to be praised because people are told they are supposed to like it or they keep forgetting to nudge it off the list when newer, "better" stuff comes out, I can only say that I most certainly do not understand the world in which you dwell. And no, that doesn't have anything to do with your opinion of the movie. I'm quite fine and content knowing that it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Repsonding to Todd's posts about his fav/best movies, I was speaking more generally-about lists in general, and in this series of voting, as opposed to this particular vote.

In general, I don't care for the "great" movies of the 70s nearly as much as I do the "great" movies from surrounding decades. They tend to disappoint me every time.

None of this is personal for me Eric, it is just my opinion.

Let's put it this way...

I never bought a suit because it reminded me of Michael Corleone's. I did buy a hat because it reminded me of Indiana Jones.

I never had my face superimposed on top of Vito Corleone's at an amusement park. I did do that with Indiana Jones.

I can recommend "Raiders of the Lost Ark" as a good movie to my child and my father, and the chances are that both of those generations would enjoy the movie. Note: Not "be entertained". ENJOY - That's a very important distinction.

To criticize "Raiders" because it has a universal appeal, and "Godfather" is somehow better because it doesn't is elitist and ludicrous to me. Sometimes, the hottest, most popular chick in school also happens to be a genuinely nice person. "Raiders" is that hot cheerleader.

Hmmm....I started off with a serious film analysis and somehow made it into "hot cheerleader" territory. Only at IMWAN.

THat is partly what I was getting at. I wouldn't have many caveats recommending Raiders to someone as with The Godfather. To me, that helps make it a great film.

No contest for me on this one, Raiders is far more enjoyable to watch.