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Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
Raiders of the Lost Ark 70%  70%  [ 24 ]
Seven Samurai 29%  29%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 34
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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:12 am 
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See this post for details on what this is all about and this post for Round 1 & 2 results.

Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4

Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai


Steven Spielberg’s Raiders of the Lost Ark is one of the most popular action adventure films ever made, a blockbuster few others can match with a charismatic star and memorable scene after memorable scene. Akira Kurosawa’s epic masterpiece influenced scores of directors to come and is considered one of the greatest foreign language films of all time, innovating and influencing even to this day.

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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:12 am 
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Going into the final four, this is, for me, EASILY the toughest challenge yet. This one will be hard.


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:34 am 
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Not a challenge in the least for me in the least. Raiders is in color, and has no subtitles (well maybe a few for ze Germans). :)


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:41 am 
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This is the first brutally unfair challenge. But I go with Samurai.

My #1 film of all time.

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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:43 am 
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Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
Not a challenge in the least for me in the least. Raiders is in color, and has no subtitles

This is an outrage.


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:53 am 
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The greatest foreign language film of all time is still inferior to the most mediocre English language film, so I go with Raiders. Not that Raiders is mediocre, mind! I just said all that because a)it's true and b)it'll annoy Eric. :)


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:13 pm 
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When I'm president of IMWAN, Jeff is banned.

And I'm voting for Seven Samurai. Raiders is a HEAVY nostalgic pick that is full-on, pure awesome in every way ... but half of what Spielberg does was learned from Kurosawa, damnit. That, and Seven Samurai is easily the superior achievment in filmmaking. I doubt it will pull out this battle, but damnit, it deserves better than to be blown away.


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:18 pm 
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Seven Samurai definitely the "superior" pic in so many ways but which one would I choose to watch?
Sorry Raiders wins.

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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:21 pm 
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Raiders, because the championship should have been Raiders vs. Jaws.

Citizen Kane would have been eaten by the shark in the road to the final four.

Consistent, since the first round. ;)


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:21 pm 
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I will have to register under a number of assumed names, and increas the Samurai vote total.

Funny, though, I have no expectation that Samurai will win, but it truly is one of the most incredible pieces of filmmaking and art to grace our civilization.

It truly is THAT profound.

Raiders is nice, but when the history of cinema is written, many pages are devoted to Kurasawa's Seven Samurai, and rightly so.

At the end of the day Raiders. A movie that I adore, is a POPCORN flick. Derivative on all of the pulp novels of the 40s and the serials.

It only holds its position in the firmament, because fanboys like us do not have any knowledge of the original pulp films and novels. Myself included. It stands out in its day based on its "novelty" when, in reality, it is anything but novel.

No great slam against the movie, but it isnt, and doesnt deserve to be talked about as one of the greatest films in history, becuase it isnt.

I feel a little like the Spartan King Leonidas on this one, but if I must fight overwhelming odds, then I will surely stand and fight. Leonidas would have been happy to have Kikuchiyo at his side.

Todd

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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:25 pm 
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While I'd never try to argue that Raiders is a classic in terms of cinema history, I don't think you give it enough credit, Todd. What the film did was bring those pulp stories of yesteryear into the modern era, and did it quite well. The novelty wasn't...it was closer to nostalgia.


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:26 pm 
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A Seven Samurai review from IMDB:

An Imdb Reviewer wrote:
Well, if you haven't seen Seven Samurai then you're not really qualified to call yourself a film fan, basically. One of the most influential movies of all time, that still holds up extremely well nearly 50 years later.

Akira Kurosawa's epic tale of heroism and barbarism set the standard in so many ways it's hard to imagine that any modern film does not show its influence in some way or other. A great script, great characters, mostly great acting, splendid cinematography and action sequences that wrote the book about how these things should be filmed. Even now, after so many have tried to imitate or beat it, Seven Samurai remains a totally gripping 3.5 hour experience.

Akira Kurosawa is one of the gods of Cinema - men who seem to have been born to make films, who have it in their blood. People like Alfred Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick, King Hu and Steven Speilberg, who make it look easy... who so obviously "get it". In this pantheon, Kurosawa is perhaps the daddy of them all, however, and Seven Samurai is one of his finest moments.

The scale of the production is remarkable - to undertake making such an epic in post-war Japan was a feat in itself. The cast of dozens of inhabitants of a villiage specially built for the movie, the 40 bandits and their horses, all the costumes, the armour, the weapons. Few directors could have brought all of this together and still paid such attention to the smallest of details in script and scene. Credit must go to the team Kurosawa worked with too, I presume

The movie's setup became the template for many movies to follow, the most recentl example that comes to mind being the excellent Korean period movie MUSA (The Warrior), for example. A motley band of characters is assembled and placed in a situation where the odds are seemingly stacked against them, and each gets there chance to really shine, prove themselves and become something more than a normal man.

Kurosawa's Samurai movies all share a little bit in common, which is the depiction of the Samurai as some noble beast, different from the common and pathetic rabble of ordinary man. In Seven Samurai the farmers are a base lot, cowardly, selfish, vain, pathetic and treacherous. How he found actors with such miserable looking faces is a mystery in itself. In contrast, the Samurai embody all the qualities that humanity would generally like to believe define it (us). Brave, righteous, honest, strong and heroic. Toshiro Mifune's character stands in the middle and represents this difference - perhaps meant to suggest that mankind can strive to rise above his flaws, but mostly suggesting to me that the common man is basically a mess and we should learn to respect our betters. Kurosawa was definitely not a socialist, unless I'm mis-reading him wildly.

I'm sure many out there wonder, does a 50 year old black and white movie about Samurai really have any interest or relevance to us in the 21st century? The answer is a definite "Yes!". Seven Samurai shows us what cinema can be, what cinema is *meant* to be. It is moving picture as art in a way that the multiplex-fillers of today cannot possibly claim to be. It's a film that satisfies on many different levels, and still provides a bench mark which today's film makers could and should use to evaluate their own contributions. True, few out there will ever be able to claim they've made a film that rivals Seven Samurai in scope or beauty, but this *is* what every director should aspire to! The sad thing is, I just can't see a project like this ever coming out of the Hollywood studio system, where art is just another commodity and marketing is the new god.


If you have never seen the movie. Please go and see it. Even if you dont vote for it.

T

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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:32 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
While I'd never try to argue that Raiders is a classic in terms of cinema history, I don't think you give it enough credit, Todd. What the film did was bring those pulp stories of yesteryear into the modern era, and did it quite well. The novelty wasn't...it was closer to nostalgia.


Unless you are far older than I am, it cannot have nostaligia, since we never experience this past in a way that we would be nostalgic for it.

But, I love Raiders, and have seen it many dozens of times more than Seven Samurai. It is a wonderful, exciting, nearly perfect adventure film. THe set pieces are wonderful, the central ethos and conceits of the film are spot on and it is just great.

But, ultimately it is the comparison (for me anyway) between a rib eye steak at Mortons. Possibly the best most wonderful pieces of beef you can get in the world. With an In-and-Out Burger, which is only the greatest hamburger ever invented. I would eat In and Out every day for the rest of my life if I lived in Cali (I dont, which is probably good) but there is no REAL comparison between the two. They both do what they aim to do better than anyone else. But a burger isnt, and never aims to be a Prime Ribeye Steak.

And Raiders doesnt aim to be Seven Samurai. In fact, part of its greatness is that it doesnt.

Anyway, gotta run so I can vote a couple more times to keep it close.

Todd

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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:35 pm 
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Foreign language movies generally don't do anything for me. There have been exceptions, but it's tough for me to slog through a lengthy feature with subtitles. Dubbing isn't the answer, because 99% of the time the dubbed voices are so amateurish that it's laughable and takes all the impact out of the acting. Having said that, I will add Seven Samurai to my Blockbuster online queue, and watch. The queue is over 100 films long though, so don't expect a response anytime soon!


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:38 pm 
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I'm pretty much behind everything Todd has posted. Make no mistake, I adore Raiders. I'm a HUGE Indy fan. Always have been, always will be. Introduced it to my son and he now loves Indiana Jones, too.

But Seven Samurai is Seven Samurai (which I have also introduced to my son, and which he also loves ... black & white, subtitles and all). It's a masterpiece.

At this point, they're evenly matched when it comes to how often I want to watch either. I return to both frequently. Setting aside nostalgia, in terms of pure cinema I have to go with Kurosawa's epic.


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:38 pm 
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Todd wrote:
Jeff wrote:
While I'd never try to argue that Raiders is a classic in terms of cinema history, I don't think you give it enough credit, Todd. What the film did was bring those pulp stories of yesteryear into the modern era, and did it quite well. The novelty wasn't...it was closer to nostalgia.

Unless you are far older than I am, it cannot have nostaligia, since we never experience this past in a way that we would be nostalgic for it.

But, I love Raiders, and have seen it many dozens of times more than Seven Samurai. It is a wonderful, exciting, nearly perfect adventure film. THe set pieces are wonderful, the central ethos and conceits of the film are spot on and it is just great.

But, ultimately it is the comparison (for me anyway) between a rib eye steak at Mortons.
And Raiders doesnt aim to be Seven Samurai. In fact, part of its greatness is that it doesnt.

Todd

I agree with everything you say here, and it is a mistake to compare the two films in terms of their impact (which isn't really the intent of these challenges, so it's ok here). I guess nostalgia is the wrong word, but I still think that to dismiss it as a derivative popcorn flick is not giving it enough credit.


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:39 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
Having said that, I will add Seven Samurai to my Blockbuster online queue, and watch. The queue is over 100 films long though, so don't expect a response anytime soon!

You know, it's not like you can't move it to the top. :wink:


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:42 pm 
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Eric W.H. Taft wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Having said that, I will add Seven Samurai to my Blockbuster online queue, and watch. The queue is over 100 films long though, so don't expect a response anytime soon!

You know, it's not like you can't move it to the top. :wink:

What, and displace "Butterfly Effect"? Oh, wait, that's actually a great idea...my wife shouldn't pick the movies.

edit: I did it, bumped to the top of the queue. :D


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:51 pm 
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JEFF LOMMEL IS AWESOME.

And you can quote me on that.


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:21 pm 
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If I did sigs, I would do so, Eric. I figure since I have them turned off, why subject others to one of my own? :)


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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:24 pm 
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Alright, now you're just being plain evil. This is going to take some consideration on my part to pick between two of my favorite movies.

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 Post subject: Film vs. Film Challenge: Round 3, Match 4: Raiders of the Lost Ark vs. Seven Samurai
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:47 pm 
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Raiders is tremendously entertaining, which is why we go to the movies. Near perfect. In the end, that trumps everything else. I appreciate that Seven Samarai had a tremedous impact, it may have superior techniques, i haven;'t seen it. Its subtitled, its in black and white, and its a foreign movie. It is likely to be less entertaining to me, thus, than Raiders (or say The Wizard of Oz). Since Raiders is near perfect in its entertainment, and that is why we go to movies, and created an unforgettable character, then I say Raiders.

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