This was a question posed at my LCS this week. Most of us felt that if Miller had not had his '80s run on Daredevil, the character would be not much bigger than Moon Knight is today.

Of course there would have been.

No way. Moribund property headed for stink pile.

Miller saved Daredevil.

There might have been a Daredevil, but the only Daredevil material I even read or cared about was the Miller material.

Someone would have given him a good run. Them's the odds.

Really, the book has always been about great highs and lows, and there were many quality
creators contributing to those highs: Miller's runs were quite good, perhaps the best, but there's
also Wally Wood, Lee and Colan, Bendis (yes, especially the early Bendis), Brubaker and Lark,
Nocenti (at times) with JRJr, DG Chichester had a few nice issues, Kesel & Nord were fun.

These days I pretty much hate everything that Bendis writes, but Daredevil vol. 2 was pretty
damn stinky until Bendis showed up. I bought DD through thick and thin, so, I didn't much
notice who was writing it when Bendis showed up. I just noticed that the direction all the sudden
had gotten fantastic. Is it better than Miller's? Maybe. Would Bendis have been able to do it
without Miller having gone first? Probably not. Bendis was good at reimaging old stuff and
giving it new life. Miller retconned the old stuff by adding ninjas. And, well... after having read
Daredevil for years, the sudden appearance of Stick and Elektra always felt a little forced.
I'm not sure I ever bought into it, despite its obvious success and overwhelming presence in
DD today.

So, while I still maintain that we would have had a Daredevil book today without MIller, I can't
exactly say what it would look like. It's quite possible that it might look very much the same.

Silly.

Of course Daredevil would still have a title.

Woulda died like PM/IF. Then he'd have shown up in other titles until some writer with a fondness for him tried to get him going again...just like any other property that never found a clear enough voice. Miller gave it a voice.


Batman's.

I agree with your analysis 100%.

The Lee/Colan DDs don't get as much adulation as the other Marvel comics from the same period, but it is a good solid run.

Did you hear they were going to cancel Batman? IT'S TRUE! If (insert creator here) hadn't come along, Batman would've lost his book! I'M SERIOUS!

Isn't it true that was actually about to happen before the 60s TV show came out and was a hit?

Let's put it this way... how's She-Hulk doing?

I have a few Miller DDs from his first run. I am crazy about his art.

It's Possible he would be an occasional limited series star...like Fury, Dr. Strange, Submariner...but he always kept a mid-level audience while those three were cancelled many times.

Frank really set the tone for DD, fo sheezy, but I'm going to say "probably yes."

Most likely. I think Beachy nailed it pretty much. He probably wouldn't be as popular and would likely be a completely different character, but most likely he'd still have his own book.

He'd be like Doctor Strange, Ghost Rider, Luke Cage Iron Fist, Man-Thing, etc.

Second tier, coming and going, losing his book, occasionally coming back for relaunches, and having periods where he's hot, and good new books. Maybe would have caught on in some other run that was good. Maybe he would currently be hot, maybe he would currently be like Doctor Strange, maybe on the back burner.

But there's no way he would have remained continuously published in an unbroken streak, and he forever got a promotion into the top tier with the best people honored to work on his book.

As I recall it, the Daredevil title was going to be cancelled, when they gave it a last chance with this young talent, Frank Miller.

The pre-Miller stuff by Jim Shooter with Gil JKane and Carmine Infantino was pretty good. The Roger McKenzie run was ok too.
And most of all the Death-Stalker was a great character.

I had also heard a similar thing about the early '80s.

And by great character i'ld go so far as saying that i'ld take the Death-Stalker, Cobra & Hyde or the Gladiator any day other anything Miller did before Born Again. Yeah: Even over Elektra, that i like.
Also, the Kingpin belongs to Spider-Man and is a Mutant with Super Strenght as much as a Gangster.

Born Again on the other hand is pure awesomeness and probably the best Daredevil story ever.
Followed by Ann Nocenti's run with JRjr, which is my second favorite after Born Again.

I don't see why Daredevil wouldn't still have survived - and I think some people are giving Miller way too much credit. The comic survived for years before Miller's arrival, and it survived his departure - just as a whole bunch of other Marvel titles survived the arrival and departure of a myriad of creative teams over the years.

Of course, I'm not a fan of Daredevil or Frank Miller, and that's just my opinion on the subject.