i bought "if i could only remember my name" today at borders.

the packaging has the HDCD logo all over it, and it is on the disc also.

however, it does not illuminate my HDCD on my CD player.

question:

is this Cd HDCD encoded and i have a defective disc, or is the packaging wrong and it is not HDCD encoded.

thanks,

renny

I haven't recieved mine yet but if the HDCD light doesn't come on then I imagine its not HDCD encoded.

It's likely not HDCD encoded.
No one is yet to report their light going on.

no hdcd light on my Toshiba either.

The DVD-A sounds great though.

I'm concerned about Rhino's quality lately, I've been hearing all kinds of issues with the Doors box on Hoffman. And the authoring of the Talking Heads Dualdisc DVD-A's were incompatable with several players.

There have been a lot of complaints on the Doors' Perception box... enough to make me hold off on this one.


And...

It appears both IICORMN and Crosby's Voyage box state HDCD on the outside packaging... but neither release is really HDCD.
Why not?

Anyone know what Stephen Barncard's reply is to this?

It will be most interesting to hear his response.

Steve

steve,

i respectfully disagree. my voyage box set, at least disc three, as it is all i've had time for, is definitely HDCD.

haven't played discs 1 + 2 yet.

renny

stevef noted


I just finished the Doors box set last nght and I am very happy with it. The content (video, bonus tracks, photos) are evenly thoughtfuly distributed throughout the set. Grant you I have only played the 5.1 discs but I found them to be amazing. They even 5.1 the bonus tracks which was surprising. I haven't read the Hoffmanite reviews yet but with all due respect their are some there that cannot be pleased.

Hearing songs like "Spanish Caravan" in 5.1 is astonshing, Morrison Hotel album was a compltte delight. Maybe I am too much of a Doors fan which makes me bias but I am very pleased with the set.

Rick A.

Some have reported not seeing the HDCD light for the Crosby box either.
I don't know myself...my Voyage box hasn't arrived yet.

However, no one has reported any HDCD indication whatsover yet for the IICORMN release.

And I'd still like to hear Mr. Barncard's explanation or response as to *why*.

Steve

i received a reply from tephen barncard, followed by original email.

i have subsequently asked stephen barncard for an email address for steve hall.

Hi Renny,

Wow, I don't know. I didn't do the encoding and authoring, it was
mastered by Steve Hall at FutureDisc. I am just the humble recordist
and mixer.

Anyway, why bother with HDCD when you could use the OTHER disk in the
package, take the two channels out of your DVD player and hear the
original master at 96k via Meridian lossless. That's better than HDCD
any day. (only the surround was remixed, with the exception of "Kids
and Dogs."

thanks for writing. Also please check out the surround part
someday...I'm quite proud of the new mixes.

sqb


>message...
>----------------
>
>Stephen,
>
>The HDCD logo is all over the new IICORMN remaster. However, the
>HDCD light on my player does not illuminate when playing the CD.
>
>Is the new remaster HDCD encoded, and my player is out of whack, or
>is the packaging wrong and there is no HDCD encoding?
>
>Thanks for taking the time to read this,
>
>Renny Paolone

"Anyway, why bother with HDCD when you could use the OTHER disk in the
package, take the two channels out of your DVD player and hear the
original master at 96k via Meridian lossless. That's better than HDCD
any day."

uhh because it says HDCD on it and some of us have cars, iPods, and other devices that would benifit from a HDCD source. Kind of an arrogant answer on his part

I agree... that's about the kind of response I expected to hear from Barncard.

He also posted on the ICE site and argued how great the Dual Disc format was too.
He seemed oblivious to the fact that many of us use and like the CD format.

My box arrived today. The HDCD light does come on for all 3 discs.I usually listen at the pc & in the car these days due to time constraints, but this one is BEGGING for a long session with my main system!

Not to be mean-spirited, but I'm chuckling a bit at this alleged audio enhancement (HDCD vs. CD) whose presence cannot be detected by listening but rather by whether or not a little light on the front of the player comes on...

Try a-b'ng the same disc with & without HDCD, then your comment would be valid. Unfortunately without that option, there is no way to tell if the HDCD feature is on a given disc as promised by the manufacturer. I do not require the hdcd light to tell you if a cd sounds good to me, but yes, it's very hard to tell if this specific type of mastering was used otherwise. It rarely impacts my listening or purchasing decisions. I think the point is that if the manufacturer is stating hdcd mastering, they have an obligation to provide it. The biggest benefit of HD in the early days is that it was only included on very high quality ad mastering chips, which meant the sound was going to be better then a disc mastered with an older chip. That may or may not be the case today. Since the majority of cd players do not support hdcd decoding, the actual hdcd decoding is of little interest to most people.

i have had an HDCD CD player for a few years now, and yes, i can absolutely tell the difference, on some more than others i must admit.

the buffalo springfield CD's are especially noticable.

i have A-B'd the IICORMN songs from "voyage" with those on the new remaster and there is not a huge difference. but i believe that is because IICORMN was mastered so damn well to begin with.

renny

p.s. but i agree with the above post, if you are going to advertise it, you should have it on your product. obviously someone dropped the ball on this one. stephen barncard is pointing fingers at the people at futuredisc, and i have emailed them. when i get some type of definitive answer i'll post it here.

Oh I know, and I *absolutely* agree with the apparently false advertising, but it just struck me at the moment as kind of funny...

I take issue with these comments.

I only encouraged those that didn't see their silly HDCD light (which doesn't technically show the effect is actually working) try and listen to the 96k version and got in a plug in for the surround version (which about 3 people have actually heard). I think I also said that the mastering guys said "the HDCD encoding is there, but the light might not come on" - in other words somebody didn't set a bit somewhere. It's an INDICATOR. The HDCD process is intentional, not real time, and hardly not done by accident.

The implication is that I'm some kind of HIFI elitist, expecting everyone to ONLY listen to the high res versions. A bit silly, don't you think, and hardly arrogant - anyone who has the HDCD version ALSO has the DVD. You guys all RIP your new MP3's so what are you complaining about? I just want people to hear this work in its best light.

Here is some of the 8 year story of bringing out this project.

From the first demonstrations in 1997 of DTS 5.1 at A&M Studios, I knew that IICORMN would be perfect for a surround mix. I had just mixed and released "Another Stoney Evening" on GD records, and thought that that would be another suitable for surround.

After I returned to the states from living in Paris in 1998, I started discussions with DTS Entertainment, who at the time were starting to release a LOT of music on their own label, in surround. Their first releases were DTS-CDs, and could be used with any DVD player that was hooked up to a receiver with DTS decoding. Rory Kaplan was the head of A&R at the time and signed a large number of commissioned projects (as at the time they all had to be mixed from scratch, on analog consoles not necessarily equipped for surround mixing. The standards for DVD-A had not been set until the fall of 2001 due to disagreement on who's formats will be used and basic proprietary greed. By 9/11 the prospects for surround were looking a bit thin, but a few exuberant surround conventions were held.

By then I had seen the new Digidesign hardware and asked many compadres about it. I knew I wanted to work in 24 bit 96k and surround. And they had the stuff. It was ready for prime time, and companies were very happy to pay the mixer directly and not deal with studio time. After decades of analog work, I was ready to 'mix in the box'

In early 2002 I secured a contract and a hardware deal for my first Pro Tools HD system and set up my first room in Santa Rosa, CA. "Another Stoney Evening" was finished by the 2003 surround conference and we started talking about a follow up: IICORMN. At the time DTS had leased the rights to other Atlantic product but this time they said they "Wanted to do this surround thing themselves." Lengthy negotiations with management continued, followed by a green light at the end of 2003. I had started the project in Santa Rosa, but had to move again to San Francisco, and set up my current studios here. All mixes were completed by August, 2004 and submitted to Rhino/Atlantic. What followed were mostly unreturned phone calls from Atlantic for the next two year. Possible promotional events and interviews came and went. There was a nice piece in MIX. No product. Finally released simultaneously with Voyage in the fall of 2006


I worked very hard on this, got almost no cooperation from Atlantic/Rhino and little input from the artist and had no test pressings, artwork or anything else to approve. I spent 7 months in the mixing of the surround version and "Kids and Dogs" and I'm very proud of this work.

This product came out of an overworked and overloaded Atlantic/Rhino (or whatever they call themselves - remember that 5000 person job cut?) TWO YEARS after I mixed it. I had some photos. They didn't want to even see them ("we have no time")

Remember the advertising? "CD with DVD , photos, and video feature"
There was NO VIDEO. There was something that could have been made. But there was "no time". (only 2 years)
The photos had no relevance to the music time or place. They were just photos with David in them taken between 1969-72. Very few photos. Not much there.

David allowed only one bonus track: "Kids and Dogs"
There should have been more.. but the final nail in the coffin... David's box set Voyage stole any impact and any bonus tracks the release of the iicormn box set could have had.

They released the gigantic Crosby box set Voyage and IICORMN at the same time.

Why marketing people think this works is beyond me. Morons. Anyway I'm proud of the original work and the surround version is a personal triumph. I hope you all get to hear it someday.

Stephen, I've always said & felt positive things about this release. You did an excellent job on it. I wish you could have done the Nash SFB also, I'm not fond of the remix on it.

I don't have a 5.1 system, so I can't play the surround version. Being on a limited budget, I made a decision to build the best 2 channel system I could afford, rather then a lower quality 5 or 6 speaker system.

I just realized this thread is a bit confusing; the topic is IICORMN; several of us including me posted about the box here previously. To clarify, I own both the IICORMN 2 disc & the box set. I love them both.

Steve, could you share more on the Talking Heads issue? Rhino's sending me a replacement, but so far the Graham Nash DVD-a causes my Pioneer Universal player to freeze up. It will play the dvd-v track & any other dvd-a in my collection. After lots of research, your post is the first I've seen regarding anyone other then me having trouble with Rhino DVD-a's.

steve,

welcome back.

don't wait so long to return again.

renny

I have UK versions of the Talking Heads titles (2 disc version- One redbook Cd and one DVD-A). They are great. Much better than the Dualdiscs (I have heard them). If you love the Heads, they are the versions to get

The IICORMN surround mix is superb. I have to thank Stephen for all his hard work on getting this product out without much cooperation from the artist. Well done!