“IMWAN for all seasons.”



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:38 pm 
User avatar
As dull and repetitive as they are

Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 30345
Location: PhilWANdelphia
Bannings: IMWAN Get Out Of Banning Free Lifetime Golden Pass
Any red-hot Latin translators out there?

I need to write some copy about this seal and need help with some of the words. I may be missing some context in the translation.

Image

Perimeter copy:

sigillym = seal or sign
universitatis = university
pennsylvaniensis = pennsylvania
curatorium = guardian, overseer or curiosity

I'm not getting curatorium in the context of the other three.

Ribbon copy:

literce = philologus ???
sine-moribus = without dying
vance = ???

Book copy:

theologia = theology
astronomia = astronomy
philos. nat = natural philosophy? natural science? philosophy of nature?
mathematica = mathematics
logica = logic
rhetorica = rhetoric
gramatica = grammar

Is there some significance to this grouping of seven? Classical liberal arts is astronomy, mathematics, logic, rhetoric, gramar and includes music and geometry instead.

Thanks!


Top
  Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:44 am 
User avatar
a k a LightningMan, lover of bountiful pulchritude

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 23669
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Bannings: 1
Philos. nat appears to be a truncation of philosophia naturalis, or as you surmised natural philosophy and it's place immediately above mathematica suggests that it might actually refer to Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica, which was Sir Isaac Newton's book on Physics, which also suggests that what it means is just "Physics."

_________________
Affecting the universe...with my mind!

Buy IMWAN 4 books!

My blog.


Top
  Profile  
 

IMWAN Mod
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:53 am 
User avatar
I am not Taupe

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 22613
Location: Chiss
more here: http://www.archives.upenn.edu/histy/fea ... guide.html

Quote:
The Seal of the Corporation

"The Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania," like other corporations, has an official seal with which signatures to documents issued or authorized by the Trustees are authenticated. The seal is, in effect, the "signature" of the corporate entity and therefore should be put to no other use. It had its origin at a meeting of the Board of Trustees in [1755] with Benjamin Franklin as Chairman, where it was suggested by Provost William Smith and agreed that a seal should be prepared for the use of the Corporation. Though the seal underwent changes over the years, the most recent design, approved in 1932 and adopted in 1933, returned it to virtually its original form.

The seal is composed of seven books stacked on a slanted desk top with the books bearing the following titles in the order listed from top to bottom: Theolog, Astronom, Philosoph, Mathemat, Logica, Rhetorica, Grammatica. On the periphery of the stack of books appears the University motto Leges sine Moribus vanae- in effect, "Laws (or learning) without character are in vain." The entire arrangement is encircled with the inscription Universitas Pennsylvaniensis.


more..

Quote:
HEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, That the Committee on University Seal, appointed by the Board of Trustees on Jun 9, 1930, be requested to design a new Seal, to contain the wording and general arrangement of the original Seal of 1755; namely, around the outer border, the words Universitas Pennsylvaniensis, in a minor position the original quotation Leges sine Moribus vanae, in the center, on a desk or table, a pile of seven books marked as follows:

THEOLOG
ASTRONOM
PHILOSOPH
MATHEMAT
LOGICA
RHETORICA
GRAMMATICA"


even more...

Quote:
The word literae cannot be substituted for leges without doing obvious violence to the famous quotation. The substitution does not seem to us necessary or, indeed, even desirable. The sense of the passage in Horace is, 'Of what avail are empty laws without (good) mores?' This was said by Horace in the light of Augustus' attempt to lead the Roman people back to the ways of life that had made and kept them great, and probably reflects the thought Ennius expressed in the line, moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque (the Roman state is founded on its ancient mores and its men).

_________________
Image--


Top
  Profile  
 

IMWAN Mod
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:57 am 
User avatar
I am not Taupe

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 22613
Location: Chiss
http://www.archives.upenn.edu/histy/fea ... /heraldry/


the seal from 1900-1932
Image

_________________
Image--


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:05 am 
User avatar
a k a LightningMan, lover of bountiful pulchritude

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 23669
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Bannings: 1
Literce sine moribus vance appears to be a similar phrase to "Leges sine moribus vanae". The latter means "Laws without morals are vacant" so I am guessing the former is "Letters without morals are vacant."

_________________
Affecting the universe...with my mind!

Buy IMWAN 4 books!

My blog.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:06 am 
User avatar
a k a LightningMan, lover of bountiful pulchritude

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 23669
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Bannings: 1
Or what Todd said.

_________________
Affecting the universe...with my mind!

Buy IMWAN 4 books!

My blog.


Top
  Profile  
 

IMWAN Mod
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:07 am 
User avatar
I am not Taupe

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 22613
Location: Chiss
:wave: hello James.

_________________
Image--


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:09 am 
User avatar
a k a LightningMan, lover of bountiful pulchritude

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 23669
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Bannings: 1
Todd wrote:
:wave: hello James.

I was too busy actually translating Latin to 1) go to the university archives and 2) read your post.

_________________
Affecting the universe...with my mind!

Buy IMWAN 4 books!

My blog.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:12 am 
User avatar
a k a LightningMan, lover of bountiful pulchritude

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 23669
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Bannings: 1
You know, he got answers for all this in the WANderground yesterday. :sigh:

_________________
Affecting the universe...with my mind!

Buy IMWAN 4 books!

My blog.


Top
  Profile  
 

IMWAN Mod
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:13 am 
User avatar
I am not Taupe

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 22613
Location: Chiss
James C. Taylor wrote:
Todd wrote:
:wave: hello James.

I was too busy actually translating Latin to 1) go to the university archives and 2) read your post.


I know. I was just saying, 'Hello James'. I can also add, 'how are you doing?'

_________________
Image--


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:14 am 
User avatar
a k a LightningMan, lover of bountiful pulchritude

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 23669
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Bannings: 1
Todd wrote:
I know. I was just saying, 'Hello James'. I can also add, 'how are you doing?'

A lot better now that I've stopped trying to translate Latin.

_________________
Affecting the universe...with my mind!

Buy IMWAN 4 books!

My blog.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Latin translation help
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:41 am 
User avatar
As dull and repetitive as they are

Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 30345
Location: PhilWANdelphia
Bannings: IMWAN Get Out Of Banning Free Lifetime Golden Pass
James C. Taylor wrote:
Todd wrote:
:wave: hello James.

I was too busy actually translating Latin to 1) go to the university archives and 2) read your post.


Thank you both, James and Todd.

James, I was stuck on translating, too, and never thought to look up the history.


Top
  Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ]   



Who is WANline

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powdered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited

IMWAN is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide
a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk.