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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:11 pm 
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I am reading a book set in Viking times, and one of the characters, "was bidden to a Lund feast."

What is that? In the context of the story, I get what happens, but I want to know more. My google searches have proven unsuccessful (I get way too much info regarding Lund Fishing Boats).

If anyone can educate me on this, I would be deeply appreciative.

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Lund is a city/region in Sweden, of which it has a famous cathedral now. It's famous for being used in feast days. Most likely, if it had feasts in Sweden long before the cathedral was built.

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Since the thirteenth century there are three kinds of feasts: festum simplex, semiduplex, and duplex, all three regulated by the recitation of the Divine Office or Breviary. The simple feast commences with the chapter (capitulum) of First Vespers, and ends with None. It has three lessons and takes the psalms of Matins from the ferial office; the rest of the office is like the semi-double. The semidouble feast has two Vespers, nine lessons in Matins, and ends with Compline. The antiphons before the psalms are only intoned. In the Mass, the semidouble has always at least three "orationes" or prayers. On a double feast the antiphons are sung in their entirety, before and after the psalms. In Lauds and Vespers there are no suffragia of the saints, and the Mass has only one "oratio" (if there be no commemoration prescribed). The ordinary double feasts are called duplicia minora; occurring with feasts of a higher rank, they can be simplified, except the octave days of some feasts and the feasts of the Doctors of the Church, which are transferred. The feasts of a higher rank are the duplicia majora (introduced by Clement VIII), the duplicia secundce classis and the duplicia primce classis. Some of the latter two classes are kept with octaves. Before the reformation of the Breviary by Pius V (1566-72), the terms by which the solemnity of a feast could be known were, in many churches, very different from the terms we use now. We give a few examples from Grotefend, "Zeitrechnung", etc. (Hanover, 1891-98, II-III): Chur: "Festum summum, plenum officium trium lectionum, commemoratio." Havelberg: "Fes-turn summum, semisummum, secundum, tertium, novem majus, novem minus, compulsatio 3 lect., antiphona." Halle: "Festum praepositi, apostolicum, dominicale, 9 lect., compulsatio 3 lect., antiphona." Breslau: "Festum Triplex, duplex, electionum, elect., commemoratio." Carthusians: "Festum Candelarum, capiterl—2 legit., missa, comine eaatio" -Lund: "Festum Praelatorum, canonicorum, vicariorum, duplex, simplex, 9 lect., 3 lect., memoria."

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:22 pm 
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Mark wrote:
Lund is a city/region in Sweden, of which it has a famous cathedral now. It's famous for being used in feast days. Most likely, if it had feasts in Sweden long before the cathedral was built.

Well, that makes some sense.

In the story, a bunch of Norse, living in Fells of England, go to meet other men to discuss what to do about the death of King Eadward and the new king, Athelstan.

The book is Thorstein of the Mere by Collingwood. I found it through google books and am enjoying it.

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:23 pm 
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Linda wrote:
Quote:
Since the thirteenth century there are three kinds of feasts: festum simplex, semiduplex, and duplex, all three regulated by the recitation of the Divine Office or Breviary. The simple feast commences with the chapter (capitulum) of First Vespers, and ends with None. It has three lessons and takes the psalms of Matins from the ferial office; the rest of the office is like the semi-double. The semidouble feast has two Vespers, nine lessons in Matins, and ends with Compline. The antiphons before the psalms are only intoned. In the Mass, the semidouble has always at least three "orationes" or prayers. On a double feast the antiphons are sung in their entirety, before and after the psalms. In Lauds and Vespers there are no suffragia of the saints, and the Mass has only one "oratio" (if there be no commemoration prescribed). The ordinary double feasts are called duplicia minora; occurring with feasts of a higher rank, they can be simplified, except the octave days of some feasts and the feasts of the Doctors of the Church, which are transferred. The feasts of a higher rank are the duplicia majora (introduced by Clement VIII), the duplicia secundce classis and the duplicia primce classis. Some of the latter two classes are kept with octaves. Before the reformation of the Breviary by Pius V (1566-72), the terms by which the solemnity of a feast could be known were, in many churches, very different from the terms we use now. We give a few examples from Grotefend, "Zeitrechnung", etc. (Hanover, 1891-98, II-III): Chur: "Festum summum, plenum officium trium lectionum, commemoratio." Havelberg: "Fes-turn summum, semisummum, secundum, tertium, novem majus, novem minus, compulsatio 3 lect., antiphona." Halle: "Festum praepositi, apostolicum, dominicale, 9 lect., compulsatio 3 lect., antiphona." Breslau: "Festum Triplex, duplex, electionum, elect., commemoratio." Carthusians: "Festum Candelarum, capiterl—2 legit., missa, comine eaatio" -Lund: "Festum Praelatorum, canonicorum, vicariorum, duplex, simplex, 9 lect., 3 lect., memoria."


I found that, and couldn't make heads or tails of it, especially in terms of the story.

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:29 pm 
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I just pulled up my electronic copy of the book, and did a search for the term, and noticed I missed the first, and very informative use of "Lund", in story. I feel stupid for over-looking this.

Quote:
Ulfar was the chief, both because he was a man of repute to begin with, and an early comer, and because he had got wealth from his trading and shipping iron to all parts. Being, as we said, a stickler for the old laws, Ulfar made a sacrificing place on that mound near his town among the trees that grew upon it. He set up an altar to worship Thor in that grove, and called it his Lund. To the feasts of the Lund he bade his neighbours; and they were glad to come, not only for the worship, and to be on good terms with the gods, but because there was a chance of meeting one another, and talking over their affairs. When anyone had a quarrel with his neighbour and there had been manslaughter or other misdoing, since there was no king to do justice they brought the case to Ulfar at one of these feasts, and he judged it according to the use and wont of the Northmen; so that Ulfar was called their Godi, or chief and priest. So many came, and long they stayed, as folk who had a good way to travel and were loth to return in a hurry, that about the Lund they built their booths to lodge in, and set up tents. Some brought wares to sell, and others started games and wrestling-matches: so that it was quite like a fair, at the great feasts after Yule and after sheep-shearing, and after corn-harvest, the seasons that stand for Ulverston fair to this day.

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:34 pm 
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Here is the part of the story where I noticed "Lund" and noted it:

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Well, as summer was passing on, Swein was bidden to a feast, and took boat and landed at the Hummerside and went up to the Lund. There men were all talking of the new king, and what should be done about him. For Eadward was now dead and Athelstan his son reigned in his stead; a stirring man, and not one to let the fire smoulder under his feet. Ragnwald also was dead, and in York the new king was another of the grandsons of Ivar, Sigtrygg the Crazy. The news was that he had marched out as soon as king Eadward was gone: but Athelstan was before-hand, and met him at Tamworth in the March, and there they made peace, and Athelstan gave Sigtrygg his sister Eathgita to wife, and confirmed him in his kingdom.
These great kings being at peace there was no longer any chance of a rising: not that it mattered much to the Northmen hereabouts: but they were all good fighting men as well as good farmers and merchants. A summer without war was a season lost, to their way of thinking. So they went home again grumbling; and for a while nothing happened.


I like the turn of phrase, "not one to let the fire smoulder under his feet." This book is riff with such bon mots.

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Nagoo wrote:
Here is the part of the story where I noticed "Lund" and noted it:

Quote:
Well, as summer was passing on, Swein was bidden to a feast, and took boat and landed at the Hummerside and went up to the Lund. There men were all talking of the new king, and what should be done about him. For Eadward was now dead and Athelstan his son reigned in his stead; a stirring man, and not one to let the fire smoulder under his feet. Ragnwald also was dead, and in York the new king was another of the grandsons of Ivar, Sigtrygg the Crazy. The news was that he had marched out as soon as king Eadward was gone: but Athelstan was before-hand, and met him at Tamworth in the March, and there they made peace, and Athelstan gave Sigtrygg his sister Eathgita to wife, and confirmed him in his kingdom.
These great kings being at peace there was no longer any chance of a rising: not that it mattered much to the Northmen hereabouts: but they were all good fighting men as well as good farmers and merchants. A summer without war was a season lost, to their way of thinking. So they went home again grumbling; and for a while nothing happened.


I like the turn of phrase, "not one to let the fire smoulder under his feet." This book is riff with such bon mots.


It looks like an interesting medieval pastiche. Reminds me a little of some of Howard Pyle's The Wonder Clock. When was this book originally written?

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:08 pm 
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I just checked, and (shockingly), it was written in 1895! The google books pdf version (which I am reading) is from Harvard's Library, stamped July 24, 1924!

Here is a fun review I found regarding it.

http://www.readingdetectives.org/cumbri ... eland.html

Quote:
I can't believe how quickly time passes and I was astounded to discover that a month has passed since I made my first blog entry!

I haven't been slacking though, and apart from 2 weeks away on holiday I have been both hard at work on the day job as well as on the Reading Detectives project!

In my initial blog entry I spoke about a book I was reading by W G Collingwood, who was an author, artist, antiquary and also a Professor of Fine Arts at Reading University. He also worked at Brantwood, Coniston, with John Ruskin.

The book was Thorstein of the Mere: A Saga of the Northmen in Lakeland.

Using his immense knowledge of Norse history and mythology, Collingwood wrote this saga which tells how the area between Greenodd and Coniston was initially settled by Thorstein's father, Swein, and how after Swein's death he was succeeded by his 3 sons.


As the novel unfolds the reader sees how the settlers' community functioned, and, how the relationship of the 3 brothers as well as the various battles, power struggles, treaties and alliances which were going on in other parts of the country impinged on this community and affected their lives.

Other parts of the county are also vividly described as they travel to fight in battle or to various "tribal" council meetings, which adds further interest.

It was fascinating to read this book - not only because it is an engaging, absorbing and interesting story, but also because it made me look at the county I live in with new eyes...or maybe that should be with older, historical eyes!

It encapsulates how, historically, Cumbria has had waves of settlers from several different races, who, over time have made both the Cumbrian people and the Cumbrian countryside what they are today.

Both Greenodd and Consiton are quite close to where I live, which made it even more interesting for me, and when I recently drove past Greenodd I found myself trying to imagine how it might have looked during the time in history when the book is set.

It was also fascinating to learn that Coniston Water's name was originally Thorstanes Watter.


My earlier blog entry describes the links between Arthur Ransome and Collingwood. I have also discovered that Thorstein of the Mere was one of Arthur Ransome's favourite books when he was young.

In 1929, Ransome wrote about Collingwood's book:

"For myself, the Lake Country and my own childhood would not have been what they were if I had not known Mr. W.J. Collingwood's Thorstein of the Mere....Years and years after, taking Thorstein of the Mere with me into Russia, I had my childhood and its country in my pocket and could escape into them when I wished. ...What Lorna Doone must be for those who come from Somerset and Devon Thorstein of the Mere must be for those who were children in Thorstein's country: and so it will be for generations yet to come"


I may just have to get a "real" copy of this book for my own personal collection.

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 Post subject: Research (i.e. Librarian) Help Needed!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:12 pm 
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I figured from the look of it that it was probably about that vintage. Thanks for sharing!

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