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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Girl Detective

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Or, "Why The Elements of Style is kind of a piece of crap."

Pretty interesting article in the Chronicle of Higher Education. I'm a subscriber, so I hope you're all able to use this link. Let me know if you can't.

http://chronicle.com/free/v55/i32/32b01501.htm


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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:47 pm 
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Pure Evil Gold!!

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Where's Frank Sisko when you need him most? :sigh:

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Girl Detective

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That's what I'm saying. :(


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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Pure Evil Gold!!

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Lorie Hall wrote:
That's what I'm saying. :(


Sorry, Lorie.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Girl Detective

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Oh, no need to apologize! I was just thinking that I'd love to have his take on that article. Strunk and White has been my writing handbook for years, but the points the author makes in that article are actually pretty sound ones. So now I'm at a crossroads.

WWFSD?


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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:57 pm 
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Pure Evil Gold!!

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Lorie Hall wrote:
Oh, no need to apologize! I was just thinking that I'd love to have his take on that article. Strunk and White has been my writing handbook for years, but the points the author makes in that article are actually pretty sound ones. So now I'm at a crossroads.

WWFSD?


Lorie, I laughed at the last thing you wrote. That sounds like a thread that someone would have started a while back: What Would Frank Sisko Do? Can you imagine the responses it would have gotten.

I will have to check out that article. I bought a copy of Strunk & White years ago and am curious to see what this guy debunks.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:20 pm 
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a k a LightningMan, lover of bountiful pulchritude

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My comment on the article is simply this: my GF teaches Advanced Placement English; she does not use Strunk and White.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:34 pm 
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I'm a fan of Diana Hacker:
http://www.bedfordstmartins.com/newcata ... 0312450257

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Still Not A Dalmatian In A Jaunty Beret

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Hmmm. Grammar is one of my weaknesses, since I am an intuitive writer, and I really loved how FAL made it understandable.

Now I have to read that article and see if it makes sense to me.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:45 pm 
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I would discard most of Strunk and White -- I had a Technical Writing teacher that was smoking that "passive voice" crack pipe. Passive voice is usually an avoidable crutch, but he was spotting in ever sentence that used "has" and "is" and everything like that.

The one thing I think Strunk and White is good for is diction -- word choice. Words are misused often, and it helps to remind us of perfectly good distinctions between words.

I'm talking about those pairs of words explained like "imply, infer" and "reluctant, reticent."

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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Lawyers need to use the passive voice. It helps to hide their client's wrong doings.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:52 pm 
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It scorched

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Mistakes were made.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:53 pm 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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And politicians!

Taxes were raised.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:30 pm 
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I have both Strunk and White's The Elements of Style (because I got it for cheap at a used book sale) and Diana Hacker's A Writer's Reference (because it was recommended to me by an English teacher with Sisko-level powers). If I find contradictions between the two, I pick whichever way I like, just like people who consult religious writings.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:45 pm 
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I am an earthling.

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I liked that column and mostly agreed with it. :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:53 pm 
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All I've ever read of The Elements of Style was E.B. White's famous introduction to it. I've never paid much attention to style guides.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:24 pm 
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What do you call a camel with three humps?

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Even the AP stylebook was out of date when I was in the papers. They still had "Teen-Ager," "Free-Lancer" and a personal pet peeve of mine, "Web site."


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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 8:25 am 
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How does

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Beachy wrote:
Lawyers need to use the passive voice. It helps to hide their client's wrong doings.

The wrong doings made by the clients.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:23 pm 
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Mr. IMWANKO

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Mark wrote:
Beachy wrote:
Lawyers need to use the passive voice. It helps to hide their client's wrong doings.

The wrong doings made by the clients.


It helps was deliberately chosen to show the passive voice being active.
But, in hindsight, the pronoun it could be interpreted as meaning the lawyers need to use it,
especially with the pronoun their being used.

I should have written The passive voice helps to hide a lawyer's client's wrong doing.
That's getting ugly, though.

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 Post subject: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 2:23 pm 
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How does

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Which helps signify the point! I think I like your last version, John.

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