Glad to see that Maus squeeked ahead of Youngblood.

WTF?

FF 1 and AF 15 (not Amazing 1) should be there.

That's a chronological listing of the most significant (not the best) comics ever published. These were the books that changed the comic industry... for good or for ill.

Youngblood #1 met the requirement, whereas a lot of much, much, much better comics did not.

The book that should have been on that list, but isn't. Sandman: The Doll's House. That was the graphic novel that ultimately changed the way that DC (and later Marvel) thought about their comics. While a few indies had been quietly keeping their back issues in stock by fully collecting their runs in trade paperbacks, The Doll's House was the book that started DC down that path. Not long after, they would release Dream Country and Preludes & Nocturnes at the same time to bring the entire run into print. Then they did the same with Preacher, then Transmet, then Marvel got into the game and the entire marketing of these books changed in a very real and profound way.

Only one early Marvel book could make that list. Marvel only changed the industry once in the early 60s.

I dont agree.

I think both of those books changed it and significantly. They represent two separate things to me.

as far as Sandman, wasn't he going for single issues?

Don't forget SuperPro.

it's framed on my wall!

Exactly how did those two books change the industry in two different ways? I see the same basic changed ushered in by both books. It's a cumulative effect. I think he chose Amazing Spider-Man #1 and not the other two for the same reason he chose Showcase #4 and not the first appearance of the Martian Manhunter. Things were certainly going in that direction before the publication of that particular book, but that's the book that made people sit up and take notice of the change.



He was going for books (Maus was serialized before the edition he sites). The Doll's House is the book that ushered in a change toward how DC viewed the after-market. From keeping a handful of well-received stories in print forever to keeping major runs in print.

You're lucky that Marvel got the X-Men book in there.

And I totally question Blackmarks' presence on that list. You might as well put Harvey Kurtzman's Jungle Book on there, because it was the first non-reprint comic to be published for the bookstore market. Both were horrible failures that didn't so much change the way the market published comics, as they're strange little oddities that peppered the landscape before other books finally made the change.

And you could probably make a major case for the first MAD paperback reprint, which was a huge, huge success and led to a couple of decades of regular MAD reprint books, along with numerous original MAD books.

I'm intrigued by the addition of Blackmark, 1971...

Back in the 80s my mother found in her cedar chest what would be the equivalent of a trade paperback today - probably 150 pages thick - that was a biography of the life of Jesus. I remember that the art was very realistic and the entire book was in comic book form and that it was published in the 1960s and sold through Christian book stores. Despite being impressed with the art, I discarded the book because I was more interested in Daredevil and X-Men and I don't know where it is today.

Spidey 1 is not when people "took notice."

FF was the best selling Marvel book for the entire Ditko years. It was where all letters to Marvel were printed for awhile. It was the flagship book. It was where Stan developed his editorial voice and the concept of human bickering heroes. That is not just the first "Marvel" book but where the Marvel Age developed, where the older readers and college students-the aging readership we have today-were attracted to. "STAN LEE" came into fruition here, and Kirby's huge influence is really begins here. This is where the KING becomes the KING.

Spidey's influence was different, the way it went for and touched the youth culture baby boomers of the day, and forever after, publishers would be trying to find the "next Spider-Man" the book that spoke directly to the youth that, typically, made up the superheroes. and with Spidey aging and growing, its the book the readership grew up with as well. The readers werent reed, ben, sue or even johnny. they were peter parker. (and Marvel's mascot )

You vasn't dere Charley.

James told me. He's older than dirt.

I'm dirt. James is older than me. Therefore, James is older than dirt.

There was a site which had sales figures of a lot of books at the time. I seem to recall Spidey out-selling FF by a pretty wide margin. I don't have the URL anymore, so I can't check. Anyone out there have some sales figures from the mid 60s.

And let's remember, Marvel never matched the sales of DC's flagship characters of the Silver Age. Never came anywhere close. The size of that college age readership wasn't exactly that significant (I think Spidey was hitting about 400,000... Superman twice that) and could probably be explained in large part by existing fans growing up (or rediscovering comics while in college), which you pretty much covered with Spidey aging. You basically said of both that they appealed to older audiences, just worded a bit differently. FF appealing to the older audience straight away, while Spidey appealed to those who grew up with the character.

Spidey was around 670k an issue, from memory.

I have got some figures on here somewhere.

EDIT: Can't find the exact ones, but this covers total. http://enterthestory.com/comic_sales.html

I'm not really going along with the "older audiences" versus "younger audiences" divide in 1963, as it relates to Marvel and DC or FF and Spidey. I think we're talking about what we would call "younger audiences" for all of it.

Spidey and Peter became the mascot because he was the hero most identified with. So his significance is greater than FF -- he symbolizes that a generation of readers did more than pick up comic books and put them down. Instead, their identity got caught up in with it, and they stayed with Marvel Comics throughout the 60's and their college years.

Spidey wins -- he best captures the Marvel Age.

Academic debate as to whether it should be AF 15 or AS 1 -- AS 1 occurring is the manifestation of the hit that AF 15 was.

http://www.nostalgiazone.com/doc/zine/0 ... siness.htm

This one has Spider-Man selling 373k in 1968. FF looks to be doing a bit less from the graphic in Prowl's link.

Also in 1968, Superman was selling 636k. In 1960, Superman was selling 810k.

Justice League and Challengers of the Unknown should be included before Fantastic Four. I'm just sayin', give credit where credit is due.

And Destroyer Duck.