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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:26 pm 
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Okay, folks. I'm writing a fantasy story, set in a culture with roughly Renaissance/Restoration-level of technology. Magical energy covers the world much like water does, flowing in ley lines like rivers and pooling at ley line intersections like lakes and ponds. Those who can sense and control this energy can use it to bend reality to their will.

The practice of using magic -- sorcery, or "the mysteries" -- was made illegal when this world's Sauron cypher cursed how the rules of magic work when he was destroyed five hundred years before. Since that time, sorcerors have re-learned how magic works, but the practice is still illegal -- in part because the only way to access magical energy involves expending life energy -- either the sorceror's own, in which case he must rest afterwards, or the spilling of blood or even taking life, depending on how powerful the spell is.

Groups of sorcerors, therefore, must operate in secret, and form covens and guilds to act as support networks -- much like organized crime families, only gathering and hoarding magical energy and life force instead of money.

What I want now is a slang term these sorcerors would use to refer to themselves as. I want something that would evoke the idea of criminal mages, something vaguely sinister but also vaguely mystical. For the moment, I'm having them refer to themselves as Artists (i.e. "You should leave the streets and quickly. This is Artists' business, and common folk could get hurt."), but I'm not so certain I like that... it doesn't quite fit the bill. If it somehow suggests "the mysteries" and perhaps even the sacrifices, that's even better.

Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:35 pm 
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Still thinking about it. Nothing yet.

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:41 pm 
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The Mavens.

This made me think of the word "cloven," so The Cloven.

This made me think of two words: cleft, and riven.

So, The Cleft. The Riven.

It's too much pressure to try and nail the perfect word -- easier just to word associate and throw stuff out there.

I'm thinking now about the particular form of earth magic that was prevalent to the ancient Romans -- the part of their religion that was distinct from the Greeks. They used to believe in sprite-like beings who drew energy from something as small as a pond or spring, and when you approached their area you might fall under their power.

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:43 pm 
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Li'l Jay wrote:
I'm thinking now about the particular form of earth magic that was prevalent to the ancient Romans -- the part of their religion that was distinct from the Greeks. They used to believe in sprite-like beings who drew energy from something as small as a pond or spring, and when you approached their area you might fall under their power.


I did some checking -- they were called numen, or the plural numina.

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:43 pm 
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First thing that comes to mind is Bleeders or Bloodletters.

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Monk wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is Bleeders or Bloodletters.


The Menstrua

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:49 pm 
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Well, that's just gross. :D

Anyway, I was thinking that there's a dual meaning to "Bleeders" One who bleeds others, and one who bleeds. And it has a slangy sort of street level sound. Bleeders could even be a bastardization of Bloodletters.

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:57 pm 
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Have you considered the concept that those of this group who would only do good with their abilities (ie, pledge not to take a life to facilitate their magic) would have a different name than those who have no such morals?

Maybe the good guys could be the Artists, and the bad guys could be the Brokers.


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:23 pm 
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Uncle Twitchy wrote:
If it somehow suggests "the mysteries" and perhaps even the sacrifices, that's even better.


One of the most "sacrificey" words is "Molech" and its variants, associated with Phoenician culture since ancient times. There is much Biblical and historical discussion of the Near Eastern practice of child sacrifice. It is not entirely clear whether "Molech" and its variants refer to a deity, or the practice of deriving power from the sacrifice. Old Testament references may refer to the outlawed practice of the sacrifice of people, because the Hebrew people had banned the practice.

Many variants include Molek, MLK, and even Baal refers to the same deity or concept. The tales told of Punic sacrifices continued as late as the Roman wars with Carthage (a Punic state).

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:51 am 
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I'm specifically avoiding any names that might suggest the real world like Molech or numenae -- this is a fantasy world I've been developing for nearly 30 years now, and like Prof. Tolkien before me I've got an extensive internal mythology and numerous constructed languages I've developed to help with naming people, places and things inherent to the world. (Keolar, for instance, is the Arthanon word which refers to all the objects that demons got trapped into when the gods destroyed their physical avatars -- in Alorréon that word is geilar; I have a character named Atreudis DeReunic, which, when translated to English from the original Alorréon, means "Hunter, The Best" much the same way my name translated to English is "God's Gracious Gift, The Chimney Sweep.")

So while Jay's ideas in the previous post are excellent in and of themselves, they're not quite what I'm looking for. I mean, I could come up with world-specific terms that would evoke the same feel, but since the reader would have no frame of reference to the mythological implications, they don't quite work. I need something that a first-time reader of stories in my world will "get it" on a visceral level right away.

I already have a species of monster called the kleft, and I'm concerned that "riven" might evoke the Myst universe, as much as I love the word. "Bleeders" is a good all-purpose name, but it doesn't immediately suggest sorcery to me -- again, this is an opening scene in a novel and I'm trying very hard to avoid too much exposition in favor of starting as close to in media res as I can. I love DAC's idea that the "good guys" call themselves Artists and the "bad guys" Brokers (I use quotes because techincally they're all bad guys -- these guys are gangsters, mobsters, mafioso but with spells instead of -- or, rather, in addition to -- guns). I'm still thinking in terms of what the general public call them, though, and since they're primarily only rumored, and the actual thought of witnessing, say, a sorcerous duel in the streets has outrageous and egregious implications that would drive, say, ordinary citizens to heroic action. For instance.

By way of example -- the "thieves' guild," or actual group of organized crime in the city in which the book takes place are known as the Parliament of Rooks, and their assassins are known as Dan Écule Vierre, which means "The Black Feathers." So early on when someone refers to "the Parliament" or Dan Écule, the other characters nod and consider their lives in danger because they think they know what that means. They don't need to know that the Parliament is actually eleven separate groups vying for control over various districts of the city, and that there used to be fourteen, or that the Drippy Man is not the leader of the entire Parliament, he's just one head of those eleven factions, and neither does the reader -- they just know that the Parliament is something that should be feared.

I need something that evokes the same with the sorcerors. I know that there are several different covens -- the Guild of Esoteric Arts, the Brothers of the Crimson Sphere, the Phaestaraos Conclave, the Runewraiths, etc. -- and that the ones the main characters are going to end up dealing with (and likely the only named group the readers will know about) are necromancers of the Brothers of the Crimson Sphere, but the characters themselves have no idea -- they think that all sorcerors fall under the blanket group ___________, just like all criminals are part of the Parliament of Rooks and all assassins are part of Dan Écule Vierre.


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:06 am 
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What about 'Spellbinders'? I know it's very obvious and simple, but as a blanket-term for a bunch of people who are seen (by most outsiders) as magical or powerful in ways that are too mysterious for most folks to understand, it describes what they do without having any kind of connotation of evil or criminality. It also sounds kind of colloquial, like a word that'd get bandied about down at the local tavern or whatnot ("I 'eard tell there were some Spellbinders up on craggy rock last night, there were all manner 'o trouble with 'em round there a few winters back").

I'll shut up now.... :oops:


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:08 am 
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The word also has a connotation of power - that these guys can 'bind' you to their will, or something. It sounds somewhat dangerous without being obviously threatening. Or something.

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:01 am 
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That's on the right track. Doesn't quite trip my "that's a cool name" sensors, though.


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:52 am 
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Li'l Jay wrote:
Monk wrote:
First thing that comes to mind is Bleeders or Bloodletters.

The Menstrua

In Clive Barker's Weaveworld he had something called the Menstrum (I think that's how he spelled it), which was a gross sort of female bloody gross magic thing.

Anyway, brainstorming on the query...


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:06 am 
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Bloodcasters? Bloodweavers?

Wyrdweavers? Wyrdcasters?

Soulbinders?

Dark Brotherhood/Brethryn?

Covenites?

Hellbringers? Hellcasters/weavers? (man..I'm obesessing over weaving and casting today)

Practitioners? Dark Practitioners? Dark...weavers/casters? :)

Cursemakers?

I'll have more of a think.


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:18 am 
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I was going to suggest "Practitioners" as well. It just sounds like a euphemism! And I suppose it could be sinister depending on how you said it.

You could always fall back on the tried and true "Initiates."

In early modern times people who claimed miscellaneous magical abilities were often called "cunning men" or "cunning folk." They were benign magic makers, as opposed to witches. Belief in them used to be widespread. "Cunning folk" sounds kind of awkward, but it would definitely be distinctive and sinister.

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:23 am 
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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:29 am 
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Hmmm....this has got me thinking.

What about just Wyrds? Or even a word that suggests the antiquity of the arts they practice, like Antiquarians, or Oldworlders?

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:42 am 
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Bloodhemians? :)

Lifetakers?

Soulspillers?

Soultakers?

Bloodromancers?

Necromages? (getting a bit too Babylon 5 there, I think...:))

Artisans?

Wielders?

Necrowielders/weavers/casters?

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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:08 am 
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That meddlin kid wrote:
In early modern times people who claimed miscellaneous magical abilities were often called "cunning men" or "cunning folk." They were benign magic makers, as opposed to witches. Belief in them used to be widespread. "Cunning folk" sounds kind of awkward, but it would definitely be distinctive and sinister.



Oooo... "that's cool" sensors just pinged. How 'bout just "The Cunning."

Let's see how this sounds...

* * * * *

[...] Before the nobleman could speak, the ambient street sounds erupted in a crack of thunder. DeReunic smelled tell-tale ozone scent of sorcery, and a cold chill ran down his spine. It had been five years since his last encounter, and he cursed the cowardly instinct that caused him to freeze where he stood. His companions immediately drew their rapiers and turned their backs to one another, defensively facing the crowd, oblivious to the nature of the threat.

Around them, other citizens fled the street. Nearby, two men in red cloaks wheeled about as a third collapsed, clutching a smoking charred hole in his chest. A voice called out from down the north end of the street. “Clear from the streets and no one will get hurt. This is Cunning business.” DeReunic glanced down the street. Four men wearing black cloaks, too heavy for the late spring climate, converged on the three crimson-cloaked men. By the way they brandished their rapiers, DeReunic knew they only intended to use them as a last resort.

“Indeed,” snarled one of the crimson-cloaked men as he and his companion also drew weapons. “No need for any citizen to get hurt here. This will be over in a moment.”

“The Cunning,” muttered Lord Panesques to the others. “I daresay this has nothing to do with us, my friends.”

DeReunic nodded. The Cunning was what the members of the various illegal sorcery guilds referred to one another. This was likely a fight over territory. “Agreed. We should leave now, before someone alerts the City Guard, or worse yet, the Archcardinal’s men.”

Before they could fully return their weapons to their sheaths, the leader of the northern group of Cunning stopped and aimed his sword at DeReunic [...]

* * * * *

Yeah, I kinda like that. Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:14 am 
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You might want to go more metaphorical. The Eye. The Knot. The Hand. The Whisper.


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 Post subject: Need A Bit of Input Naming A Fantasy Concept
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:16 am 
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Oh, I like those, too. I might use things like that for the names of the heads of each particular coven.


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