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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:06 pm 
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Unburying this from the Batman V. Superman thread.

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I noticed this before, but it sort of jumped out at me with the reaction to Deadpool. There's this idea that every superhero movie functions as a judgment on the entire genre of superhero films. Deadpool does great? Superhero movies aren't dead/there's no superhero fatigue! Fantastic 4 bombs? Is this the end for superhero movies?!?! There are, on average, somewhere between 5-10 superhero movies a year, and at least one or two of them generally make between 500 million to a billion or more at the box office. There are also a ton of superhero TV shows, cartoon, video games, etc. It's a pretty firmly established genre at this point. I'm not saying that they'll always be happening at this level, but I do think we're past the point where one film, no matter how big, sinks the genre. Especially Marvel's films, which are about as reliable as Pixar at this point, in box office, if not in quality.


Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:22 pm 
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It is a trend that will pass. That doesn't mean they will go away completely. Other examples of genre include westerns -- they had a huge zenith, a long run, and never completely disappeared. But there were periods of time when they were more the big thing.

There was a trend in the 70'd for large scale disaster movies. They faded, but are still with us.

Slasher films in the 80's. Still with us, but not as much.

There will come a time when it's not the case that every Memorial Day, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas is anchored by a superhero movie. DC is trying to speed that along.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:41 pm 
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Five minutes after superheroes debuted, there they were on the silver screen.

They have existed for almost 80 years, and there has been major, big-budget movies for half that time.

So, yeah. It's here to stay.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:45 pm 
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Rafael is correct.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:57 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
So, yeah. It's here to stay.


Will it ever recede in popularity? Or do you just mean there will never be a time when they cease to exist?

Because surely that is not the question -- westerns have been with us since the 1920's, but they are currently not in vogue for multiple releases a year.

I think we need to have a non-trivial question before there is anything to discuss.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:00 pm 
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Li'l Jay wrote:
Rafael wrote:
So, yeah. It's here to stay.


Will it ever recede in popularity? Or do you just mean there will never be a time when they cease to exist?


It was a team effort. To fully answer the question it needed both our posts.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:09 pm 
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Li'l Jay wrote:
It is a trend that will pass. That doesn't mean they will go away completely. Other examples of genre include westerns -- they had a huge zenith, a long run, and never completely disappeared. But there were periods of time when they were more the big thing.

There was a trend in the 70'd for large scale disaster movies. They faded, but are still with us.

Slasher films in the 80's. Still with us, but not as much.

There will come a time when it's not the case that every Memorial Day, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas is anchored by a superhero movie. DC is trying to speed that along.

I think this is right. Eventually studios will realize that it's foolish to try to shoehorn yet another superhero movie onto the big screen -- who wants to try to beat Marvel at their own game (except DC/WB) by taking $100 million plus gambles on superheroes no one's heard of as a longterm strategy -- and try other genres. We saw this last year with the surprise success of Jurassic World and I think studios who don't have all the intellectual property that Marvel and WB has at their finger tips will want to branch out and find something those two don't have locked up.

That said, it looks like we'll probably see 2 or 3 superhero movies every year for the foreseeable future.


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:24 pm 
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I think Deadpool was a huge development. It shows you can develop something with its own vibe, a separate marketing campaign, and have success. When combined with the BvS-flop-sweat right on top of it, it could signal a move away from high stakes, multiple movie BIG RELATED FRANCHISES, and towards more hip solo efforts.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:40 pm 
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Yeah, Deadpool cost $65 million while BvS cost $250 million... I know which gamble I'd rather make.


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:14 am 
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"Super-Heroes" is a motif, not a genre. Discuss.


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:20 am 
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Fraxon! wrote:
"Super-Heroes" is a motif, not a genre. Discuss.


I think that's where we're heading, but aren't quite there yet. There's still the fairly rigid superhero film structure culminating in the hero/heroes having an epic battle against the villain in the end.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:35 am 
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Li'l Jay wrote:
Rafael wrote:
So, yeah. It's here to stay.


Will it ever recede in popularity? Or do you just mean there will never be a time when they cease to exist?

Because surely that is not the question -- westerns have been with us since the 1920's, but they are currently not in vogue for multiple releases a year.

I think we need to have a non-trivial question before there is anything to discuss.


Westerns are locked in to a time period (maybe the only genre that is), making it difficult to produce a "new" story within that genre. Obviously, you can make a new story with interesting characters, but there is a perception of "been there, done that" with Westerns.

With Superheroes, we are only just now exploiting characters, concepts, and stories that have been around since the 1960s, not to mention the capability to produce entirely new concepts in the subgenre. I think there are decades left before it loses steam, a la the Western.


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:46 am 
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Bobson Dugnutt wrote:
Li'l Jay wrote:
Rafael wrote:
So, yeah. It's here to stay.


Will it ever recede in popularity? Or do you just mean there will never be a time when they cease to exist?

Because surely that is not the question -- westerns have been with us since the 1920's, but they are currently not in vogue for multiple releases a year.

I think we need to have a non-trivial question before there is anything to discuss.


Westerns are locked in to a time period (maybe the only genre that is), making it difficult to produce a "new" story within that genre. Obviously, you can make a new story with interesting characters, but there is a perception of "been there, done that" with Westerns.

With Superheroes, we are only just now exploiting characters, concepts, and stories that have been around since the 1960s, not to mention the capability to produce entirely new concepts in the subgenre. I think there are decades left before it loses steam, a la the Western.


The point is not to compare the subject matter of Westerns to the subject matter of superheroes, but rather to shed light on what it means for something to "stay" or not. Things recede. They take their place in the "occasional" category without disappearing. Superhero movies will ebb.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:51 am 
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Fraxon! wrote:
"Super-Heroes" is a motif, not a genre. Discuss.

How so?


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:52 am 
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Fraxon! wrote:
"Super-Heroes" is a fashion choice, not a genre. Discuss.


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:07 am 
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Super-heroes are tearing IMWAN apart.

They are the elephant in the room. Discuss. Pardon?


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:10 am 
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Li'l Jay wrote:
It is a trend that will pass. That doesn't mean they will go away completely. Other examples of genre include westerns -- they had a huge zenith, a long run, and never completely disappeared. But there were periods of time when they were more the big thing.

There was a trend in the 70'd for large scale disaster movies. They faded, but are still with us.

Slasher films in the 80's. Still with us, but not as much.

There will come a time when it's not the case that every Memorial Day, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas is anchored by a superhero movie. DC is trying to speed that along.


This is pretty much in line with what I think. I think some cracks are starting to appear. The public is fickle. The young public is more fickle. When everybody's dad is wearing graphic superhero tshirts, it's going to result in young people wanting something of their own. I would like the gravy train to run forever because the movies subsidizes the comics, even though I am getting a tad bored with the films. But it'll fall out of favor. Everything dies. Everything burns. Happy Friday!


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:11 am 
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Evans wrote:
Super-heroes are tearing IMWAN apart.

They are the elephant in the room. Discuss. Pardon?

Agreed. We should ban the topic. And your face.


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:11 am 
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I do know that I'm pretty tired of them though; that might be significant because I'm a long time fan, or insignificant because I'm tired of a lot of things at my age. It does feel like over kill currently.


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:12 am 
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Jim Bracjey wrote:
When everybody's dad is wearing graphic superhero tshirts, it's going to result in young people wanting something of their own.

:paranoid:


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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:13 am 
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Evans wrote:
I do know that I'm pretty tired of them though; that might be significant because I'm a long time fan, or insignificant because I'm tired of a lot of things at my age. It does feel like over kill currently.

Well, you are really, really, really old. I mean, old as shit.

So we have to factor that in. Your oldness, I mean.

Quite old.

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 Post subject: Are Superhero Movies Here to Stay?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:17 am 
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Hanzo the Razor wrote:
Evans wrote:
Super-heroes are tearing IMWAN apart.

They are the elephant in the room. Discuss. Pardon?

Agreed. We should ban the topic. And your face.

NOT THE FACE!


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