I purchased a live cd: "Kiss Alive 35 Live in Dallas TX Dec. 6, 2009" from a legitimate artist-authorized site, http://www.concert-online.com. If they aren't legitimately authorized than someone please tell me. These are CD-R's, I didn't make them, that's how you can buy them from the site, or you can buy them in MP3 form. I listed it on ebay, stating that it was a CD-R because I don't like it when I get them without the seller disclosing that upfront, and also stated that this wasn't a bootleg, that it was from an artist-supported and authorized site. Supertramp has a lot of cds available of their current 70-10 Tour on there, one of which I just purchased. The sound on this site's recordings is EXCELLENT. Anyway, no sooner did I list it, ebay emails me saying they removed it because it was copyright infringement. How is my listing any different than selling a mass-market Kiss cd? What's sad to me is that I was 100% honest and upfront with my listing when a lot of sellers don't mention a thing about them being CD-R's or boots but they are all over ebay. Does the Cd-R have to be a LABEL Cd-R? I bought a Sheryl Crow Promo CD-R from Sony Japan and the seller listed it that way and he didn't have any problems with ebay. I rarely list anything on ebay because it's a hassle, the listing fees, having to re-list it if it doesn't sell, etc.,--amazon is just so much easier. In my reply to ebay, I informed them that I won't ever list anything with them again and if they ever condescendingly tell me that I "may need to take a tutorial" again, I won't be BUYING anything from their site, either.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gene is trying to do the Garth Brooks thing and stop all grey market sales.

1. Ebay is ALWAYS wrong. They are the scum of the earth.

2. For better or worse, ebay has had a policy for years that only the original copyright holder may sell burned discs. End of story.
That's why I have been unable to sell the 2 Hometown Band cdr's on ebay, despite having authorization from Shari Ulrich to do so (in fact I transferred & mastered the version that's most widely in circulation, again with Shari's permission!).

While I disagree with this position, they are allowed to set their own policies for their business. Where I get really pissed is when they:
a. Represent their internal policies as USA law when they are simply ebay policies
b. Use Orwellian Double speak (example: the upcoming seller rate hikes are being advertised incorrectly as reductions!) My average sold item ($6.99 + $3 shipping) will actually see an increase in ebay fees of 25 cents.

3. However, when in doubt, see #1.

4. If you got the "copyright infinrgment" notice, rather than a "policy violation notice" it almost certainly means that someone from Simmons legal or management team turned you in. Unfortunately, the way the EVIL DMCA reads, ebay does need to take this action to cover their rears. My understanding is the DMCA puts the burden of proof on the person with the item if the website requires a takedown. Otherwise the burden is on the site (& you know the chance of ebay allowing that to happen is less than 0). What's especially lame about the DMCA is it NEVER puts the burden of proof on the accuser.

However, ebay could make it much easier to deal with this, but all they care about is covering their rears. They (at least used to) have a rather complicated set of instructions for appealing, which basically requires getting the artist to remove the complaint.

If I'm reading this correctly, Simmons deserves as much of your anger as ebay does. i have not been hit with this sort of thing in years, as most artists no longer seem to care; ebay has even added a promo "item specific' to cd's, which used to be the #1 reason for takedowns.

In the old days where my voice actually got heard (when my bus did well) I used to very publicly & loudly boycott artists that pulled this sort of crap. 2 that I did boycott were Dave Matthews (got a various artists promo pulled that he did 1 song on) & Frank Sinatra (though ebay irritated me the most on that one, they actually gave the president of old gangster's FAN CLUB the power to go after sellers! Sinatra's fan club was upset that i was selling legal imports.

My take here is that Gene Simmons is an asshole.

Kiss already got paid when somebody bought this cd brand new. What is the difference in it being resold and somebody reselling a mass market Kiss cd, to Gene Simmons?

I agree with you 100%. Gene Simmons is apparently an asshole. It is also possible that his attorneys are overzealous. Several artists (mostly on Atlantic records) had that reputation back in the early days when cutouts, BMG Club cd's & promos often got pulled.

My memory is that management & attorneys for Robert Plant & Madonna were some of the worst offenders.

Janie Hendrix is known to be a barrel of laughs also.

I paid for Gene $immons Asshole and as far as I'm concerned, he didn't deserve my money the first time around. He should be grateful someone wanted to buy a used copy.

On the other hand, he did sign his autobio for me for nothing back in 2003, so I can't be mad at the guy.

Yeah, I thought Garth was pretty full of himself back then. After all, he was only the biggest country artist at a time when big stars actually sold CDs.

Don't know what Gene-o's excuse could possibly be.

As a buyer, I will only bid upon or purchase a CD-R on Ebay with extreme reservations. If the price is right, I've been known to pick up an interview promo, more for the audio content than for the collectibility, but with the apparent death glass-burned major label promo disc, the there appear to be way too many sellers out there slapping together a bunch of remixes from iTunes and elsewhere, burning them to CD, and selling them as "acetates," "white-label promos" or "Brazilian/Taiwanese remix promos," or simply as a "sealed" disc. While I have no doubt that many of these promos are indeed official product created by the record labels in question, as a collector, I had to draw the line somewhere.

I did once pick up a copy of the Who's "Blues To The Bush" set--from a seller who provided photos of the discs in question--and while I'm reasonably certain these discs I have are the "original" CD-R's, it is simply way too easy for me to turn around and take these discs, create couterfeit copies, and sell them on Ebay, either as pricy collectables or simply as a "deeply discounted" title. Again, I'm sure that many of CD-R discs on Ebay are not counterfeit, but I would venture a guess that more of them are counterfeit than not counterfeit.

I agree AMW, but the title I was listing can be purchased right now from the site I mentioned for $30.

James,

You're absolutely right, but I can't imagine how difficult it would be to find somebody on eBay's staff who understands what you're referring to, let alone has the power to adjust their listing policy accordingly.

Can you specify that it's not a factory CD without using the CD-R designation? I'd bet that's what triggered the action, even if from Gene's lawyers. I just did a search and saw three listings for exactly that type of CD that didn't say they were CD-Rs, and there are tons that show up for "Kiss used CD".

Alan

Ebay is run by morons.

I had a 100% positive feedback rating with 2000+ positive comments. I sold a CD and the winning bidder changed his mind AFTER he won it. He got it in his head somehow that it was a bootleg CD (which it was not - I don't sell things like that) without ever even seeing it. He asked for a refund, which I gave in full the SAME DAY. The item never shipped and he got a full refund immediately.

He then left a negative feedback saying I sell bootleg discs, that I tried to withhold his refund, and that I threatened him. None of these things happened and they could all be verified if Ebay would look at the transaction history, yet they refuse to remove his false and defamitory feedback.

I haven't listed an item since then and I won't sell with them while that feedback is still on my record. Principles.

If this is not fixed I will resort to my Brooklyn upbringing and buy one of his items under a different Ebay account, make a stink about something after I receive it, get my refund through Paypal and leave him some nasty feedback.

A lot of sellers do this--again, the word "acetate promo" seems to be a new code word for "CD-R promo". I had no idea about Ebay's CD-R rule; this explains a lot.

DanO, after he left you his feedback, did you email him back asking why he said you withheld his refund when you submitted it the first day? There have been a couple of articles recently in the NY Times regarding this day and age where people can say whatever they want to when rating something without impunity. There's always that one bad apple, makes it tough even when you're an honest seller.

There are several code words for cdr, I have been known to use them.

The downside to that is if the buyer doesn't understand the code word, or even worse if the buyer doesn't understand & has an anger problem.

not a big country fan but i did buy a copy of garths album at the time "the hits".
bought it used just because he was making such a stink about.