I believe there are still some record stores left in Ma. (Massachusetts) and hopefully Jimbo will visit this summer so we can peruse their racks.

It was my experience over the many years frequenting Mom & Pop record stores that the majority didn't care about the music anymore than their big brothers at Sam Goody and Korvettes did, they were either in it because it seemed like a better way to make money than a grocery store (see just about any King Karol or neighbourhood top ten stockist in the 1960s), or because they felt it was a way to "avoid a real job" (see the numerous freaks who were running indie stores during the glory days of the 1970s ... and "avoid a real job" was a direct quote from one such shopowner which I remember to this day). I can count the number of good, reliable, professional, independent record stores I had access to locally on one hand and still have fingers left over ... and I lived in New York City at the time, not exactly a backwater. When I found a good place I was uber-loyal to it. (Mine was Zig Zag Records, which some of you NYC guys might remember. I think they're still around today as a metal specialist shop.)

Of course, that was a long time ago. Loyalty to a business becomes meaningless when they can't provide the products you want. Loyalty to a business also becomes meaningless if it costs so much in price, gas and time that it's no longer a pleasure to collect music even when the B&M can get what you want. It's like this mystique that's been repeatedly brought up about the "knowlegeable record store owner". If I have an entire afternoon free and I want to spend it talking music, my first inclination is to come HERE where I can talk music with hundreds of knowledgeable, dedicated collectors popping in and out of the forum. My first inclination wouldn't be to drag myself down to some local B&M in West Wherever just so I could be granted an audience with the Knowlegeable Record Store Owner. Besides, I already don't trust his judgment — he's running a B&M in 2010, after all.

But getting back to your point, James: I do 99% of my media shopping at Amazon, and have been for over a decade. Note that most of those purchases are from Amazon's third party dealers whom I've found to be reliable, the ones I've mentioned here at ICE such as ImportCDs and BlowItOutaHere. What makes you think that they don't care about the music? Maybe the owners started their businesses because they love music as much as we do. At the very least they must be knowledgeable, if they're consistently stocking the obscure rubbish that I collect.

I'm going to open a record store and call it Obscure Rubbish.

Just so Linda will pop in from time to time.

Bingo!

Hit the nail on the head for me.
If the pleasure ain't there, I might as well save the money and buy on-line.
I'm using Amazon Canada more and more lately for SACDs from MoFi and Analogue Productions.
The only B&M that carries them has a so-so selection and the prices are all over the map.

They encourage special orders (which I suppose makes sense....they only buy what they know will sell) but then can't/won't tell you what the price will be.

The excuse is currency fluctuations but I have no desire to pay $38 for an SACD that was $30 last time they stocked it (which has happened).
Of course it can also work to your advantage too if the CDN$$ gets stronger, but I'm not willing to take that risk.

Linda, whenever you shop somewhere that provides convenience, at some point, you are going to lose something for that convenience. That's why "convenience stores" are higher-priced than grocery stores--there's more of them and they are closer to you. I'm not knocking amazon or any other online seller, I use them as well and for the same reasons as you do. But in my case, it's also by default. Lastly, you are already seeing amazon going to the cheap "on demand" cd-r as a result of that convenience they offer and they know your options are limited now. And when you buy on amazon and ebay from a third party seller, you really don't know what you're getting until it shows up, unlike if you were physically inside a store. Geff just started a thread about getting a cd-r when it wasn't described as such and I've suffered the same. All of your points are valid and well-taken, I guess what it comes down to me is, given the choice, I'd rather support a local Mom & Pop record store than a conglomerate any day of the week.

SlipKid,

Your remarks about Vintage Vinyl (in New Jersey) are right on the money, and I can definitely relate.

Since I live close-by, I shop there often. Generally, the store offers much better-than-average selections, and their prices (excluding imports) are reasonable. I have found many reissues for $ 6.99 or less, and the staff is usually friendly and knowledgable.

However, you hit a bulls-eye with your comments about the "music" that gets played in the store. With the long and rich history of rock and soul music, is it really so difficult to play something that's not repellent, and won't drive people out of the store? I'm not a fan of Death Metal, but even if I was, how many times must I hear ear-splitting performances of "I AM SATAN. FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! I HATE YOU!" (blah, blah, blah).

In my case, I've learned to tune this stuff out and continue shopping, but I have to wonder about how many potential customers get alienated and driven out of the store.

It does annoy me when independent retailers try to "guilt" people into doing business with them, as if it is morally wrong to do otherwise. I haven't seen this so much at record stores but I used to be on the mailing list for a small book store, and they spent so much time moaning and griping about the Barnes & Nobles of the world in their mailers that it ended up having the opposite effect on me. If you have great service, an interesting selection and a nice atmosphere, I'll shop in your store. Just don't try to tell me I'm a bad person if I shop elsewhere.

I know what you're saying, Jeff, but "I AM SATAN. FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! I HATE YOU!" is one of the classic death metal songs.

Are you sure? I could have sworn I heard it on a KidzBop album or something like that...

Alan

Oh well, I guess I'm just an uncultured Philistine.

I agree Jeff, that is my #1 complaint about record stores. They purposely play the worst music imaginable. Its like they want to create an atmosphere that drives customers out of the place.

Cut yourself some slack, Jeff -- it's an acquired taste.

Just wanted to third or maybe even fourth amazement at record store clerks (and owners) who still take pleasure in playing awful music meant to drive customers out of the store. I buy a lot of what most music consumers would consider to be unpleasant music, but there have been plenty of times when I've felt sorry for other customers who were trying to shop while hearing truly grating sounds. Of course, I'm thinking of four specific indie stores that are now closed...

To state the obvious: Musical tastes are subjective, and people are bound to have their own (sometimes eccentric) favorite artists and styles. I don't mind hearing music that's way outside of the mainstream from time to time, but what is so hard about mixing it up with more accessible tunes? As pointed out before, rock and soul music have been around for a good 50 years, while jazz, blues, country, and folk music have been around for close to 100 years. There is an abundance of great music available at their fingertips to play over the sound system.

I really feel alot of these morons who run these stores like to bust chops. One big reason I'm never in a rush to go to one of these stores anymore. Thank goodness for the Amazon's of the world.

Back in the OLD days it was conventional wisdom that we just didn't play anything in a record store that was likely to be offensive. Believe it or not, that still left a ton of quality music to be played. I briefly worked at a Tower super store in 1980, & even they largely followed that unofficial policy.

The last indie standing in my area changes the music they're playing constantly. The manager there greets most of the regular customers by name, and usually knows their preferences and plays something they might like. Kinda like "Hey, have you heard this new one by so-and-so...", or "I know you like band X, have you heard band Y, here's a quick sample ..."

I don't shop there as often anymore, because I've cut way back on my purchases, and can usually do better price-wise at AmazWAN. However, I usually find something to buy, and sometimes discover a release that I didn't even know existed until now

If a shopkeeper asked me what to play, I would say Porcupine Tree please.

Starbucks plays the most irritating New Agey music imaginable. Nothing even close to rock. I usually have to bring headphones.

Another factor that has impacted independent record stores is the rise of the independent/third-party seller. For example, here's what I came home with yesterday:

George Carlin - Classic Gold [2CD]
Roseanne Cash - The Wheel
Culture Club - The Best Of
Jay-Z - The Dynasty: Roc La Familia
John Mellencamp - Key West Intermezzo (I Saw You First) [CD single]
Willie Nelson - American Classic
Courtney Pine - Underground
Joshua Redman - Joshua Redman
Joshua Redman - Timeless Tales (For Changing Times)
Fred Wesley & The Horny Horns feat. Maceo Parker - A Blow For Me, A Toot To You [Jpn]
VA - Revolution No. 9: A Tribute to The Beatles in Aid of Cambodia
VA - Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me
VA - The Best Of The Beat Generation
VA - Gee Street Records Presents: The Year Of The Backslap
VA - A Historical Debt
VA - The Rock 'N' Roll Era [3CD]
The Sound Of Music: An Original Soundtrack Recording

Grand total? How about only ten dollars (which by the way also included 3 DVDs)?

All were purchased from a gentleman who normally sells via Craigslist but decided to put a couple of tables out in his driveway because it was a nice day. The Willie Nelson title -- released only last year -- would likely cost close to ten dollars alone at any of the independent stores I regularly visit. Gotta be hard for any retail store with all its overhead to compete with that...

Yeah, much of that sort of thing comes (legitimately) from Pawn Shops. I've been haunting them for years for my resale business.

Not anymore. My mother just told me that Zig Zag finally gave up the ghost.



Rest in peace, old friend.