17 and counting...total JBF post count...4975+ LOL
Rick Hannah wrote:
OK.
First, THE OVERLAPPING PANEL STAYS! Or I quit, Shooter!
Second, yes, there is an issue with the gun. Not because of the size of the gun but by my piss-poor choice of view as an artist. Coloring would help as would eliminating some of the lines of the shirt around it. You know that book? How To Draw Comics the Marvel Way? The one that we've all worn out? Yeah, you might think I had never read it. Panels 7 & 8 are basically the same camera angle; this violates some rule somewhere I'm sure and bugs me more than any of the other stuff y'all have pointed out. There was no continuity of action that would justify it. But I'm not changing it. Not right now.
And yes, more blank panels. But it IS done, and not just cause the artist is lazy or the inker ignores them. But I agree that action lines on the previous page are needed.
Third, as Paulo probably noticed, I have retained the tattoo on Thug 1. They were going to be tattooed up at some future time before this was finished anyway. Arms, neck. Also, there was always going to be a bit of foreshadowing later with El Brujo. Now, when I show the front of his shop, I can incorporate that eye symbol in his sign. I can make these thugs part of a gang he runs and I can use other mystic symbols as their tattoos. Santeria symbols. I was going to have Sir Michael walk by his shop as another person on the street, unknown to El Brujo but now a panel or two of showing that he KNOWS now about the incident on the park may be in order. Maybe Thug 1 lurking in the background. Also, EL Brujo may be able to "see" what happens thru that eye tattoo. Besides, in color and with others, it'll be clear it's a tattoo.
I've already thrown everything off by adding a panel; I may have to end up either cramming 10 panels on a page or adding pages. And not the little sliver panels either.
Now, since we're working digitally it's easier to jack with the art. So, does THIS work better?
I think Rick kicked over cahir as he typed this - but the bullpen applauded as he hit the enter key.
I do like the enlarged panel with the one thug holding the gun a lot more. Nice edit.
Not a fan of the overlap panel -- may be getting a sub-artist to re-draw that after the pages are submitted and vouchered.
Those forest panels are really striking. Having him say "Just lads ..." (referring to the people whose asses he just kicked, yes?) is really, really charming. I really like the storytelling through panels 2-4, and the character's body language in panel 5.
I don't know a lot about drawin', so I gots no complaints, except one layman's note: At this size, the leaves in the foreground of panel 6 are positioned in such a way that it kind of looks like the dude is wearing a big, funny-looking feathery hat.
Since I am completely ignorant about art, here's two notes on the text. First, it feels like maybe there is something screwy with the tense. The first panel seems as if it's speaking in the present, looking to the past. "For two years now, Sir Michael has been having peculiar dreams. In those dreams there are voices." That makes it sound like "Now" is the present.
But that last caption -- "Now he would just have to survive without it" -- is putting "now" in the past as well. Does that make sense? I'm too long out of copy-editing so I don't remember the name of tenses. But it's the difference between present-tense narration which, when referring to the past, goes into past tense ... and past tense narration, which when referring to even earlier, has to go into past perfect. I think.
To put it simply ... I think the last caption should replace "would" with "will" so it reads, "Now, he will just have to survive without it." That keeps it all in the present.
Second, there's a slight disconnect in the narration, where you're talking about the voices, then the talisman, then the voices again, and then you end with "... survive without IT," with "it" referring to the talisman. Jumping back and forth between voices/talisman/voices/talisman is a bit jarring. There might be away to smooth that out. I think "He had obeyed the voices" is the panel that feels weirdly placed. For one thing, if you took it out, the text would go straight from the first mention of the talisman to "Now he'll have to survive without it," which much more fluid. And for another thing, "He had obeyed the voices" rings oddly in that text because nothing previously suggests the voices were telling him to do things. Granted this is all nit-picky since at this point I don't know where the story is going. But looking at this page purely on its own terms, that panel trips me up.
Very small things. But I wanted to contribute and have no critical eye for the artistic side of things.
There should be no "now" in Panel 5. That's just a mistake.
The "voices" are first referenced on Page 1. "He has been told he should..." and also on Page 2 where he wonders if he should "have listened to the advice."
I don't say they are from dreams, though. But that would probably help enough with what's going on. It's in the script. I should probably go back and caption those and the others. It would help with the flow of what's going on.
Between 5 & 6 & 7 "...dreams." "In those dreams there are voices" makes me want to say in 7 "The voices..." instead of going back to "The dreams..." because I've already advanced the topic, if you see what I mean. So I'm thinking maybe I should say in 7, "The dreams and the voices began..." And I should also probably say "...began the night after his blood..." so it doesn't sound like he feel into a dream as soon as his blood contacted it like some sort of mystic narcolepsy.
You are entirely right about the tense in Panel 10. I will change that.
But I think I'll keep the captions on 10 like they are (fixing the tense). I think if you're reading it from the beginning it will work that way.
It's supposed to be a little vague anyway. Later on he will be visiting someone and much exposition will occur. Specifically just who and what the voices belong to.
I'm glad you like the "Just lads" referring to the thugs. He is going soft in his old age. Or at least compared to what he used to be. But, more importantly, since he had the talisman he could use sorcery to extricate himself from the situation without resorting to gunplay for of course, he is armed. Like several times over.
And I keep saying it, but color is going to help separate things (like the leaves by his head) a LOT. I hope. I really want to see Panel 5 up there colored.
Anyway. I may come back later when I haven't seen it in a while and decide ALL the dialogue needs to be changed.
Thanks, Doot! It was a good critique and helpful. I may take a break for a day or two and letter all the other pages that need it and correct things up til now. Come up with more tattoos for the thugs. Take a breath before I have to draw street scenes and interiors. I'll be wishing I was drawing trees again. A page every 5 days appears to be what I'm doing so the drawing and lettering should be finished...by Christmas.
Thanks, Judge. Good to see you. I was wondering if you were stopping by.
No, the PAGES look great. All of it together. Not just the trees, not just the boarders, not just the word balloons. All of it, to me, looks great. I wish I could draw half as good as you do.
You are getting some good feedback, and I agree with a lot of it, but it doesn't take away from the overall design and look of the pages.
Stop putting yourself down. It's harshing my art buzz.
_________________ Aren't you glad you talked about this? Here, on IMWAN?
OK. Gone back and added words where needed and changed some of the things we've been talking about. This will make the comments kinda wonky now but I didn't want to take up more bandwidth posting all new pics. It may have been better for comparison, though. Oh well.
Added some dialogue or changed it in other places. Futzed with the art a little. Please pay attention to Panel 1, Page 6 and see if that shot of the gunplay is clearer.
Thanks for looking.
And thanks for the compliments. All I see is the crudeness and all I think is how John Buscema could have done all this in about half a day. And better.
On page 5, yeah, the changes work better, though I still don't like the bullet; I don't think it's necessary to be able to see it. I'm not sure what the issue was with panel six to begin with, unless you mean panel 5?
Going back to the panels with the eyes, my only real issue with that is that I'm not sure who the speaker is in those panels; is it the same person or two different people?
_________________ These days, it's all secrecy, no privacy... ~ Mick Jagger, "Fingerprint File" Save the Bees
All I see is the crudeness and all I think is how John Buscema could have done all this in about half a day. And better.
Don't think like this. There no point to it and it just sours your attitude toward the work.
Just compete with yourself -- strive to make your next page better than what you did the day before. I once read something in a Tony Robbins book about the concept of "kaizen" and striving to improve by 1% every time you do something -- you don't pressure yourself to improve at an unrealistic pace, so your morale stays high -- meanwhile, that little bit of extra effort usually ends up being more than a mere 1% improvement.
All I see is the crudeness and all I think is how John Buscema could have done all this in about half a day. And better.
Don't think like this. There no point to it and it just sours your attitude toward the work.
Just compete with yourself -- strive to make your next page better than what you did the day before. I once read something in a Tony Robbins book about the concept of "kaizen" and striving to improve by 1% every time you do something -- you don't pressure yourself to improve at an unrealistic pace, so your morale stays high -- meanwhile, that little bit of extra effort usually ends up being more than a mere 1% improvement.
+1.
Also, it's cool that you have stories to tell.
_________________ These days, it's all secrecy, no privacy... ~ Mick Jagger, "Fingerprint File" Save the Bees
I know many here don't like his stuff, but Erik Larsen's said many times if he could draw like anyone, it would be Adam Hughes.
His art isn't even close to Adam Hughes but he's put out 184 issues of the Savage Dragon so far -- while not close to the quality, his output dwarfs Hughes'. Where would he be if he just sat around feeling inadequate? A guy that can't draw as well who also doesn't have much work to his name.
His philosophy is to press on, accept things as "good enough", and try to do better the next time. I think it makes sense.
On page 5, yeah, the changes work better, though I still don't like the bullet; I don't think it's necessary to be able to see it. I'm not sure what the issue was with panel six to begin with, unless you mean panel 5?
Going back to the panels with the eyes, my only real issue with that is that I'm not sure who the speaker is in those panels; is it the same person or two different people?
Page 6 is the one with the gunplay not page 5. As for eliminating the bullet, well, we have the effects of two shots, the leaves falling (and now that we have a directional light blur that should be clearer) and the impact on the tree. If we don't have the bullet then we have no result of the third shot if you see what I mean. I'm leaving it for now. I may come back and change it later.
As for Page 6, panel 5 (which I hadn't mentioned), I did go back and make the bandana bigger. Maybe I need to leave old pages in next time so we can compare.
And the overlapping panels (damn it!) is the same guy, Thug 1 (with the all-seeing eye tattoo) who is answering Sir Michael's (in Spanish) invitation to leave from the previous page.
Now I'm drawing buildings.
Last edited by Rick Hannah on Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Panels 7 & 8 are basically the same camera angle; this violates some rule somewhere I'm sure and bugs me more than any of the other stuff y'all have pointed out. There was no continuity of action that would justify it. But I'm not changing it. Not right now.
And not the little sliver panels either.
But, more importantly, since he had the talisman he could use sorcery to extricate himself from the situation without resorting to gunplay for of course, he is armed. Like several times over.
