For those who don't understand how the mainstream record industry is set up, thought I'd share a few representative wholesale "SALE" prices from a huge Universal USA SALE list I received today. Remember, these prices are being touted as a big sale at WHOLESALE:

Stones Exiles 2 disc $18.29 WHOLESALE

Various Millennium Collection budget cd's $6.09 - $6.49 WHOLESALE

Various Gold 2 cd budget collections $12.69 - $15.39 WHOLESALE

Scorpions Sting In The Tail $9.69 WHOLESALE

Maria Muldaur Southland Of The Heart $12.69 WHOLESALE

Lynyrd Skynyrd Gimme Back My Bullets Deluxe $17.49 WHOLESALE

Elton John Peachtree Road $15.39 WHOLESALE

If you've ever wondered why your local cd shop either lives & dies on used & imports &/or has gone out of business, here's why; And this is nothing new. The markup (or lack of) has been this bad in the music industry for all except the mega stores since at least 1980 when I started in retail.

Here's why Ma & Pa record stores are gone:

A local indie had the Def Leppard deluxes last year for $32.99. I remember thinking "I can get those for half that price on Amazon."

I want to support my local indie, but not by paying twice as much.

Then shortly after that, Best Buy had a month-long sale on all DEs for $14.99. Yep, they're squeezing the little guy out of business, all right.

That's all sorts of wrong.

I was shocked to learn last month that there is, in fact, an independant CD store down in Pt. Charlotte, Florida. I'd tried looking for it before, but with no success for some reason--frankly, there are more than a few defunct independant stores that nonetheless pop up on Google searches--but I was back down there last week and...there it was--TJ's CD's & More. Possibly the only store of it's kind left anywhere on the Gulf Coast south of Tampa.

Judging from the title of this thread, I thought it was about Massachusetts and Pennsylvania record stores only...

Agreed, but they're probably dying quicker thanks to being forced to charge a price that isn't remotely competitive.

Geff knows what he's talking about. I come at this from a somewhat different angle, that nothing (including competitive pricing) will stop independent music walk-in stores from closing.

I like supporting indies very much, but I do so by supporting the ones who have a contemporary outlook and a real future, the ones who have set up storefronts on Amazon and eBay.

Again, I agree that there really isn't a way to save them long-term-- i'm just saying their fueling the fire by making it so these brick and mortars can't even compete price-wise (since there's no way to win on convenience).

It is possible that the wholesalers and the labels themselves have reached the point that they're deliberately trying to force the walk-ins out of business, because they're not worth servicing anymore. EMI practically said this in so many words regarding the Beatles box last year, and the Floyd Piper box before that.

Ah, okay. Too bad.

BTW, do you hate brick and mortar or something? You almost seem to be actively rooting against them but maybe I'm misinterpreting your "tone".

Well, I can only have the effect of one person's disposable income (and I don't have that much to dispose of!), but I haven't bought media at a walk-in store since the late-'90s, and I haven't missed the experience at all. Even if by some miracle the remaining indie B&Ms were to remain open, they'd never get me back into one.

Did you actively dislike it or did you just find the digital experience more satisfying?

I love browsing in a used record store, personally.

It's like night and day. Being able to find anything I want in under five minutes, have it delivered to my home, and not waste entire afternoons browsing the limited selections of local stores ... my collection was never close to complete before the Internet, and it cost way too much. Now my music collection is always hovering around 99.9% complete, and I pay less for new releases (including imports) than I did in the 1990s. Once the pieces were in place on the Web (Amazon, eBay and so on), there was no way I'd ever go back.

Browsing: I have nice nostalgic memories of picking through the stock at indie shops ... weird discoveries and surprises ... but come on. We'd take a chance on an album based just on the cover art, for $2.99 or whatever. At the end of the year we'd thrown out plenty of money on experiments that didn't pan out, and plenty more on experiments that did work for us, but later involved replacing some of the titles we'd bought with different pressings for best audio quality or completeness of tracks.

Nowadays I don't have to spend a penny to experiment. I can stumble upon a band I'm unfamiliar with, hear loads of audio samples, see what they look like and read what they think, and be familiar enough to judge whether I want to own their work within a half hour ... then another 15 minutes of going through discographies to establish the best way to collect all their tracks ... then immediately buy as much of their work as I feel like without getting out of my chair.

And of course, if I weren't old-fashioned enough to want the physical CD, the process would be even faster and easier.

I think it's because I'm much more casual than most of you music folks here. I just buy an occasional CD these days.

Gee, I haven't bought a CD in a B&M since...lunch.

There are HUGE advantages to the Internet stores that B&Ms can never counter - selection being the prime one. It's why I used to love Netflix (pre-selling their soul to the studios in the name of combating privacy when all it is is a way for the studios to try to rake in more PPV bucks - but I digress) over local rental stores. The local stores can't compete on variety. Same for the B&Ms - they can't possibly stock what the Internet sites do, especially when the Internet sites like Amazon will even order the stuff through third parties. Not to mention the ease in getting imports and such. And the ability to sample stuff from a wide variety of sources.

Where the Internet sites lack a bit is the personal touch, that trusted source you can ask about this group or that CD. Sure, you get reviews on Amazon, but for my money, they're best taken with a grain of salt, especially when they cross them w/reviews of earlier versions of the same release. That said, that gap is pretty readily filled with sites like this.

But I'd rather pay extra than buy a disc at Best Buy. It's my store of last resort.

Alan

Another reason why the internets are so much better: I can order an import direct from amazon.uk for sometimes close to half the price for an imported version via Amazon in the US. And Amazon.uk ships pretty darn fast.

BTW, I just realized that Geff meant "Ma & Pa" record stores.

When I first saw this thread, I wondered, "Why is he just focusing on Masschusetts and Pennsylvania?"

Thats what I first thought.

It's Chris's attitude against them that is causing music stores in Masschusetts and Pennsylvania to close in droves.

That alone shows how passe` MOM & POP stores have become, perhaps. But Linda, they became so long before the digital age, in reality. The big box stores, including Satan's Warehouse, I mean WalMart, pretty much delivered the knockout punch. And one thing I think you overlooked Linda when you detailed why you prefer ordering online compared to a Mom and Pop store--the proprietor's of a Mom & Pop store CARE about the music. Where you order from doesn't, they just care about your money, bottom line. I order online as well, but if there was a store where I could go in and pay a few dollars more, run by someone who really had a passion for music and that's what propelled he or she to be in that business, I'd go to them 100% of the time.