“IMWAN for all seasons.”



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 35552
Location: Between the thumb and the wrist.
Do any of you folks outline your stories? If so, how much detail do you go into (meaning, do you outline scene by scene or just the different acts in the story?

I've found that outlines tend to kill the spontaneity in my writing, but I think if I could get a handle on it I might have far fewer dead-end stories.

_________________
Daily art blog Very Short Drawings
Pay a visit to The Writers' Block, where writers, uh...write stuff!
Read my comic strip A Boy Called Monk
Read my comic book Town of Shadows


Top
  Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:16 pm 
User avatar
a k a LightningMan, lover of bountiful pulchritude

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 23669
Location: Wilmington, NC USA
Bannings: 1
I no longer write stories without at least a vague idea of the ending. For something like a movie or television script, an outline is vital, because you're trying to hit certain goals / marks (such as a twist at the midway point for a comedy television script), you're making sure you have enough story for the format, and you're planting the things you'll need to be there at the end the rest of the way through. Those outlines are scene by scene.

Where I let spontaneity and serendipity work in my work is in scene flow and dialogue. If the end requires that the hero learn in the scene you're working on that the damsel likes cottage cheese for breakfast, there are several different ways he can come by this knowledge. And inevitably as they characters speak, they end up doing things their own way.

I used to like working without a framework, but I found I created a number of beautiful fragments but no finished works. There's something satisfying to me to have a finished piece, even flawed.

_________________
Affecting the universe...with my mind!

Buy IMWAN 4 books!

My blog.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:30 pm 
User avatar
Mr. Eh?

Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 25349
I now use outlines just for non-fiction. I found I would spend so much time creating the outline it would sap my interest in creating the story.


Top
  Profile  
 

IMWAN Mod
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:52 pm 
User avatar
The Modfather; Wizard of WAN

Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 56213
Location: Under the Iron Bridge
Bannings: freely handed out
I always make a brief outline at the outset. How detailed it is depends on how fleshed out my initial ideas are...but as with Dave, if I go too detailed I lose steam and never finish the story. Since I have enough trouble finishing a story as it is, I keep it pretty loose! I have to at least have a notion of where I want to end up though, and some key points along the way.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:59 am 
User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 40002
Location: Die, Marti Tracy, die
The grand old “it depends” applies to this, and all other such questions. At the end of the day, the only “right” way to do things is the way that works for you.

With that said, I think writers who are tackling a novel-length work without at least a basic outline are doing themselves a grave disservice … and I say this as someone who has been down that dark, ugly road. Unless you’re prepared for an arduous second draft with LOTS of rewriting and LOTS of deleting, an outline of some sort of key. Maintaining a good pace and flow over the long haul is very difficult; even just an outline of your major story milestones can help you ensure you hit the important narrative marks when and where will best suit the reading experience.

Further, not quite knowing where you’re going can be fine in shorter works – certainly pure inspiration has led me to some unexpected place (I’ll post something later) – but in longer works you’ve got to have a degree of focus to pull off your story. If you don’t know where you’re going, setting things up for yourself can turn into an incoherent nightmare of fragmentary ideas, unfinished threads and clunky plot twists. In a novel, you’re setting up character and narrative information 200, 300, 400 pages in advance. Best to know what you’re setting up.

Short fiction can be different. If you know your “punchline,” great. And if you don’t? That can be great, too. At worst you’ve wasted a few days, a week, maybe three, on an idea that didn’t work. It happens. If you’re going to write, you MUST get used to the idea. I do feel that for long fiction, however, writing by the seat of your pants is a mistake (and a very common one made by beginning writers).

……..

Now, I don’t necessarily think the outline has to be greatly detailed. In some cases it might be, it others it might not. A YA fantasy I’ve been working on relies only on a loose set of notes, nothing more than five or so story milestones I need to hit. I let the characters dictate the rest (and in one case, an unexpected – to me! – turn led to minor changes in that outline). In another longer work, a conspiracy thriller I shelved until next year (which really means until 2010 ;) ), it absolutely required a very tight, detailed outline. The story and structure I’m working with just couldn’t work without it.

By and large, though, I prefer a loose “milestones” kind of outline.

Just leave yourself wiggle room is all. In the course of writing, you’ll “discover” character traits you did not expect, or information about your world you hadn’t planned. Be open to that! Be prepared to flex as you go. That stuff is one of the most thrilling, exciting and FUN things about writing.

That’s my two cents. It applies to me. It might not apply to anyone else.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:46 pm 
User avatar
Biker Librarian

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 25152
Location: On the highway, looking for adventure
I've never used a written outline in writing fiction. I may have one in my head when I start. My stories are usually written out largely in my head on long walks before I start typing them.

_________________
The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls who, when he found an especially costly one, sold everything he had to buy it.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:08 pm 
User avatar
Lactose intolerant

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 327
Location: East Brunswick N.J.
If I used an outline maybe my fiction wouldn't suck. At the very least, it might be finished
Just kidding.
Starting with the ending in mind is sometimes all you need on the short stuff. I've also been recently introduced to the "pitch" concept, where a screenplay writer will give a synopsis of what happens along with brief chracter descriptions. Doing that in the beginnig, before your story/script, can be a great help.

Concept
Synopsis
Characters
Summation.
You'r creating your own bible, so to speak.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:34 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 35552
Location: Between the thumb and the wrist.
I've been doing a lot of outlines for the writing class I'm taking, and it's been a huge help. I think I used to get caught up in doing a technically correct outline, which isn't my thing at all.

_________________
Daily art blog Very Short Drawings
Pay a visit to The Writers' Block, where writers, uh...write stuff!
Read my comic strip A Boy Called Monk
Read my comic book Town of Shadows


Top
  Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 40002
Location: Die, Marti Tracy, die
I can see that. In school we learned that an "outline" was a very specific thing with a very specific structure. In this context, though, it doesn't need to be. It's a road sign or three pointing you in the right direction, some stuff to ensure you keep your head in the proper space and the story going where it need to go.

My "outline" for the YA novel I recently finished consisted of 10-15 lines written on a yellow notepad. Just enough to ensure I knew the major beats of the story, really. In between those beats I could disgress as much as I wanted, exploring characters, places, etc., and if I got lost I could take a glance, see where I should be going and get back on track.


Top
  Profile  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:53 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 35552
Location: Between the thumb and the wrist.
Eric W.H. Taft wrote:
I can see that. In school we learned that an "outline" was a very specific thing with a very specific structure. In this context, though, it doesn't need to be. It's a road sign or three pointing you in the right direction, some stuff to ensure you keep your head in the proper space and the story going where it need to go.

My "outline" for the YA novel I recently finished consisted of 10-15 lines written on a yellow notepad. Just enough to ensure I knew the major beats of the story, really. In between those beats I could disgress as much as I wanted, exploring characters, places, etc., and if I got lost I could take a glance, see where I should be going and get back on track.


This is the outline I used for a paper recently

PERSONAL NARRATIVE - Outline.

SUMMARY - While on a camping trip the summer after my senior year of high school, three of my friends and I accidentally stole a row boat. We were caught and berated by the owner, and fled to the small town near the campground to seek refuge. After hiding out in a truly horrible movie, we returned to the campsite.

I. The trip.

Preparation/supplies
Setting up camp
A brush with a fiery death

II. The beach.

Rain - the perfect beach weather.
Going for a boat ride.
Caught!

III. The old man.

Shouts from the shore.
Righteous indignation or “Your boat’s a piece of crap!”
“The Law” is invoked.

IV. Outlaws.

Where to flee?
A haven is found.
Pauly Shore. God help us.

V. Anti-Climax.

Slinking back under cover of darkness.
Some of us are listening careful for the sound of The Law. Some of us are occupying ourselves in…other…ways.
Thou Shalt Not Steal or The Great Flood.
“Incarceration”
The Moral.


Once I had that down, the writing itself was so much easier.

_________________
Daily art blog Very Short Drawings
Pay a visit to The Writers' Block, where writers, uh...write stuff!
Read my comic strip A Boy Called Monk
Read my comic book Town of Shadows


Top
  Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Writing Question: Outlines
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:08 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 40002
Location: Die, Marti Tracy, die
Yeah, I like that. That's perfect.

For another (temporarily aborted) project, I just wrote chapter titles. They were descriptive and I knew what they all meant, so that was good enough to give me a sense of what I had to write.


Top
  Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]   



Who is WANline

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powdered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited

IMWAN is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide
a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk.