Keef looks like he's getting ready follow up his cameo in Pirates by auditioning for the role of Gollum in the upcoming version of The Hobbit.

I just finished reading Robert Greenfield's book on the Stones' '72 tour. Anyone out there in IMWANland see them on this tour? What are your recollections? Also, anyone see either of the two films made during this tour: "C------------er Blues", or "Ladies and Gentlemen ...."? They apparently had limited release and have never been on VHS or dvd in the U.S. I think CS Blues may have never been released theatrically either. Reading this book, I can see why.

I don't have the answer but I will follow it up with yet another Stones question.
I remember watching a coutry-style version of Angie at the time of it's release. I liked it better than the "hit" version. I have never found a copy. Is it available anywhere? Does anyone know?

I've seen "Cocksucker Blues". It's fairly depressing, although the musical segments are great. Haven't seen all of "LAGTRS", but major chunks of both movies can be seen on You Tube.

"CSB" can be publically exhibited legally by the film's director, Robert Frank, as long as he is present at the screening--the result of a legal settlement with the Stones. Thus, it is one of only two films ever legally censored in the United States, the other being "Titicut Follies".

I should also say that people looking to see "CSB" looking to be shocked and/or titillated will likely be disappointed--a clip of the "sexiest" scene (with the naked groupie on the airplane) was included on no fewer than two officially released Stones videos, and I don't think we ever actually see any of the Stones use any drug harder than pot.

Rumor has it that the reason "LAGTRS" has been officially unseen for so long is because apparently the negative was somehow damaged? I'm trying to remember...

I really can't understand why there's never been an official live release from the 72-73 period. They were at their absolute smokin best. I have half a dozen or so live recordings from this period - Mick Taylor cannot be praised enough.

Madison Square Garden, 1972, was supposed to be my first Stones show, but I got real sick and my parents wouldn't let me go, so my older brother went with his friend instead. I seem to recall that it was the night of the baseball All-Star game, which I wound up watching on TV. For that tour, you had to mail in postcards for a chance to buy tickets, so we used the postcards from Exile on Main St. (I've since reacquired a couple of LPs with complete card sets.)

I saw Ladies and Gentlemen... sometime during the mid-70s at the Mini Cinema in Uniondale, LI, probably a midnight showing. I've got a bootleg VHS that I haven't watched in years, but it's of watchable quality--even letterboxed, IIRC. I'm sure it must be out there on boot DVDs by now.

I know I've seen Cocksucker Blues somewhere along the way, but probably 30+ years ago.

I had to wait until 1975 to see my first Stones concert. We scalped floor seats for $50 (a lot of money for a high-school student back then). They had the famous "Lotus" stage that folded down like a flower. Mick spent some time on the "petal" right in front of us.

I've seen both films. "CSB" is indeed boring, and feels staged-- especially the groupie scenes. It's not Caligula-- it's more like a bunch of bored guys on tour. I like "Ladies And Gentlemen," but I prefer listening to the Stones to watching them, so I tend to pull out the 10-17-73 show (Brussels Affair) when I want to hear that period of live Stones. I first saw them in '81 on the Still Life tour-- personally, I thought they were better in the late 90s. I saw the opening night of the arena tour in Oakland in '99-- that was my definitive Stones show.

In the STP book mention is made that the groupie scenes were staged, as were other "party" scenes. I was unaware that the film maker Robert Frank was also arrested along with Keith and Mick in Rhode Island just before the '72 Boston show.

I saw Ladies and Gentleman...The Rolling Stones when it was released in theatres. I think it was in 1974. I'll chime in on this later this evening when I have more time to post thoughts.
Good God Almighty, do I wish I had seen the Stones during the Taylor Era-especially '72 or even '73 at The Forum in Inglewood!

I think the Stones would like everybody to believe that they didn't want the film released because "the groupie scenes were staged", but the obvious reason they wanted the film banned is because the hard drug use is way too explicit. Again, you don't see the band members using narcotics--the camera turns away just before that happens--but there were apparently plenty of backstage personnel and groupies who were willing to shoot heroin and snort cocaine on camera. To this day, it's rare to see that sort of graphic drug use in any documentary, let alone a music documentary.

As for why no official live material from 1972 has ever really surfaced...it would seem that the Stones themselves are simply not all that interested in going through their vaults, for whatever reason. I seem to recall hearing an outstanding-sounding stereo bootleg from this era that I believe came from a radio broadcast--probably a "King Biscuit" show? It's hard to say--I heard it back in the pre-internet era, when such recordings were as mysterious as they were magical.

Did I say "major chunks" of "C.S. Blues" could be seen on You Tube? I should have said "the entire film"--and in much better quality than the bootleg VHS copy I bought back in 1990. http://www.youtube.com/user/schulle1967 And letterboxed DVD copies of LAGGTRS are also available for order...

Well, Keith told Rolling Stone just recently (when Mick and him were both promoting Shine A Light) that he wouldn't mind seeing Cocksucker Blues released in some official capacity. I can't recall DVD or not. So, now I don't know if Keith was saying that to be cruel to the fans or to rub Jagger's nose in it because he likes to get under Mick's tit.
Look, you guys know my long history of complaining about the lack of Stones archival material from the vaults. They've got to get past the jealousy, politics, phobias...whatever... and get the stuff out there. There's a section of Stones history which needs to be made clearer to the public as it concerns their own musical evolution. It's just plain insane that they hide the Taylor Era from people like they do. Other than the bootlegs, Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out & the studio albums on which Taylor played and the Gimme Shelter film, there is no documentation (other than Gimme Shelter) as to why '69 started out great guns like it did and became the platform for Taylor's progression as a guitar player. There is no clear understanding as to why Taylor's melodic counterpoint to Keith's playing is important to the evolution of the Stones reputation for being one of the hottest bands on the planet in a live setting back then.
Only the true die-hards who search out the bootlegs know of Taylor's leap in playing from '69 to the '71 U.K. Tour. (A very important side-point to add here: Even myself, a huge die-hard who has bootlegs, I don't have any shows from Europe '70 because they are hard to find and are apparently even harder to find in decent sound quality. Why should Europe '70 be lost to the anals of time? I want to hear the steps Taylor took in '70 where his style evolved more from '69. Something from this tour should be released as well. Why does this have to be such a mystery?)
Other than the die-hards, the general public doesn't know why the '72 American Tour and the '73 Forum in Inglewood, Hawaii & Australia & Europe '73 shows are considered to be so beloved by so many of us. If you can envision the Stones playing like a band as if they were a freight train threatening to go out of control and with a muscle that meant business, then you can easily envision why it boggles the mind why this material hasn't been officially documented.
I will still hold true to my conviction that Taylor is getting a major bum rap from Mick and Keith when it does nothing to take away from their greatness. Hell, I've explained on the internet until I'm blue in the face that I will take any bootleg series from the Stones from all 3 periods.
Also, I can't believe there's only legal problems to getting this stuff out. It has just been confirmed in a recent Rolling Stone article that ABKCO is,indeed, in the same distributorship umbrella as the rest of the Universal Music Division (at least that's how I read it-maybe I'm wrong). But that's one less bit of red tape that needs to be conquered. And if Mick and Keith could do a 40 Licks deal with Allen Klein, then why can't they take the next step and get some official movie, DVD & CD releases of stuff that needs to be out there in the pipeline?
And another thing. I wish somebody (Keith perhaps?) had the power to convince Mick that we might be sentimental people, but that he shouldn't hold it against us because he's not. But we're also not stupid either and we know an important chunk of history is being held back from us.
You know what I wish for (along with this stuff to come out eventually?)? I wish I could sit down with Mick Taylor and Bill Wyman and talk about this. I even wish I could talk to Charlie and Ronnie about it. But I just feel as if talking to Mick and Keith about it will lead to nowhere.
Universal? If you or anybody you know has the power to do so, could you please squeeze Mick and Keith enough that it gets out on the table and discussed? We're not getting any younger.

Without pasting Steve's entire post, I think he's hit the nail on the head as far as highlighting some of the Rolling Stones' intragroup dynamic. Ron Wood is still "the new guy" and has lasted 30 years content in the role, probably because he doesn't complain about Mick and Keith; Charlie typically keeps his mouth shut too, although Bill's occasional complaints about getting cheated out of songwriting credits (notably for "Jumpin' Jack Flash") have always apparently been ignored by Mick and Keith. On the other hand, Mick Taylor had to threaten legal action to earn royalties from "Goats' Head Soup" outtakes later used on "Tattoo You".

I also find it noteworthy that, nearly 40 years after his death, Mick and Keith still cannot come up with anything nice to say about Brian Jones, typically calling him either a "bastard" and/or a "c**t". Way to carry a grudge, guys.

So, it would seem apparent that the continued slighting of Mick Taylor is intentional, although who knows what life is like for Mick and Keith these days. I can't imagine that dealing with Keith these days is any sort of a walk in the park--he's a lifelong drunk who has surrounded himself only with people willing to look the other way (except when he falls out of trees)--and I'm sure Mick, given his consistant anti-nostalgia stance, has a staff unwilling to present the boss with proposals for a Taylor-era vault release. So, again, to agree with Steve, I'm positive that there are no major legal issues keeping this stuff from getting out, just two stubborn old rich guys.

I caught the 1972 tour in Tuscaloosa, AL with Stevie Wonder as the opening act.
My recollection is "foggy" to say the least!

I probably should have saved this for a separate thread on another occasion, but I do have one great fear just in case Universal decides to do a Deluxe Edition of the It's Only Rock N' Roll album. I have this terrible feeling that the bonus tracks will be either just a '75 show (with Ronnie) and hardly any outtakes from the sessions that had Taylor with them. In fact, even though I wouldn't be against it, they would probably find the tape from the jam session with Ronnie and Kenny Jones (and Bowie as well if I'm recalling correctly-did it take place at Stargroves?) where the song "It's Only Rock N' Roll" sprang from.
You see, people. It would be the lazy person's way out if Mick & Keith as well as Universal decides to just tack on a '75 show to the second disc of an It's Only Rock N' Roll Deluxe Edition. It would give the Glimmer Twins the excuse they need to squeeze Taylor out of his accomplishments again. Remember when our friend Jimbo was pining away (about a month or so ago) over version of "Time Waits For No One" that we would all hope has an extended length that goes beyond the fade-out on the album? Now, I dearly love Ronnie. But let's be honest. Wouldn't you want to hear some incredible extension of that solo from Taylor (if it should in our dreams exist) over a '75 USA or '76 Europe show that could be released as part of the Deluxe Edition of Black and Blue instead? As another side-point, any Deluxe Editions should only have studio and jam session stuff on it. Make the live stuff available separately and as their own entitity.
I just have this great fear that the It's Only Rock N' Roll album is going to be skewered to making it look like Ronnie was a bigger part of that album than he actually was. And boy! Will there be some interesting arguments to be made on the Black and Blue album given that Harvey Mandel and Wayne Perkins played on some of the tracks for that album.

I'm not counting on any Stones deluxe editions happening any time soon, although I'd frankly rather see live stuff come out of the vaults. The studio outtakes I've heard, especially from this era ("Claudine", "Drift Away", etc.) don't really do anything for me; however, the completist collector in me would like "Think I'm Going Mad" to somehow show up on CD.

Will any old school Stones fans out there wish horrible things on me if I admit that my far and away favorite Stones album is Steel Wheels? One of my top 15 albums ever by anyone.

Gregg,
This forum prides itself on the diversity of opinions and the fact that we don't knock you over the head for them. If Steel Wheels rocks your boat, then more power to you.

I consider Steel Wheels to be the last great Stones studio album. So far. And it's not like I hate the more recent ones.

Yeah, well I hope Mick doesn't forget the physical product buyers either when he makes out that report.

I don't think there's a damn thing wrong with any of the last four studio albums by the Stones, except for the fact that it's taken twenty years to them to release them all, and that anything new they release is automatically doomed to suffer in comparison to their 60's and 70's classics.