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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:59 pm 
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Recently a local radio station switched from "Classic Rock" (Hard stuff from 1970s to 1990s) to "Classic Hits" (Softer stuff from 1950s to 1970s). When I'm on the station I notice a large amount of 1960s rock/pop contain organs. Stuff from The Animals, Monkees, Procol Harem, etc.

What killed the Hammond organ sound in rock/pop music?

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:25 pm 
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Punk, Disco, and the synthesizer. One of these things was not directly related to the other two. :)


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:38 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
Punk, Disco, and the synthesizer. One of these things was not directly related to the other two. :)


But synthesizers have more of an electronic tone than organs. I remember, as a kid, seeing organ salemen in department stores. It was a big deal! More so than guitars and drums.

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:46 pm 
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That's another one of those rock and roll questions to which I've never heard a definitive answer: Who was the first rock musician to use some type of synthesizer as opposed to a traditional organ? The possible answers apparently include people like John Lennon, Micky Dolenz and Stevie Wonder.

All I really think happened, however, is that at some point in the late sixties, the organ became "uncool" among baby boomers. If I understand my rock history correctly, one of the many reasons hippies looked down upon Led Zeppelin upon their debut was the organ opening to "Your Time Is Gonna Come"--it was seen as a step backwards, musically.


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:21 pm 
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AMW wrote:
All I really think happened, however, is that at some point in the late sixties, the organ became "uncool" among baby boomers. If I understand my rock history correctly, one of the many reasons hippies looked down upon Led Zeppelin upon their debut was the organ opening to "Your Time Is Gonna Come"--it was seen as a step backwards, musically.


It seems odd there was never a forgiveness connected with the organ and rock music. I kinda miss that "church-y" sound as a counterbalance to harder chords. You don't realize how many rock songs in the 1960s had organs until you focus your attention on them.

I use to listen to "We Got To Get Out Of This Place" by The Animals(?) as a child (my brothers & sister would leave 45rpms laying around) and caught it on the radio yesterday. I never paid much attention to the organ until then. I realised how much that song would suffer if the organ was removed.

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:25 pm 
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Blackstar wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Punk, Disco, and the synthesizer. One of these things was not directly related to the other two. :)


But synthesizers have more of an electronic tone than organs. I remember, as a kid, seeing organ salemen in department stores. It was a big deal! More so than guitars and drums.

I think it was just easier, especially as technology improved, a synthesizer was much more versatile, could at the least simulate the classic organ sound. Touring bands could bring one instrument instead of two or three. I'm just guessing, but it makes some sense. So does AMWs point.


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:29 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
I think it was just easier, especially as technology improved, a synthesizer was much more versatile, could at the least simulate the classic organ sound. Touring bands could bring one instrument instead of two or three. I'm just guessing, but it makes some sense. So does AMWs point.


But no one has really brought back the classic organ sound to rock music!

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:39 pm 
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Blackstar wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Punk, Disco, and the synthesizer. One of these things was not directly related to the other two. :)


But synthesizers have more of an electronic tone than organs. I remember, as a kid, seeing organ salemen in department stores. It was a big deal! More so than guitars and drums.


I got suckered into taking lessons when I was a kid, cause back then (late 60's) it seemed quite a few kids were playing. The other reason was my Aunt and Mother both knew how to play. I REALLY wanted to play guitar, but my parents thought the organ was more sophisticated. And the teasing!...I can't tell you how many times I heard from other kids "Hey, I gotta an organ for you to play!" It was dreadful...

Jeff


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:04 pm 
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Blackstar wrote:
Jeff wrote:
I think it was just easier, especially as technology improved, a synthesizer was much more versatile, could at the least simulate the classic organ sound. Touring bands could bring one instrument instead of two or three. I'm just guessing, but it makes some sense. So does AMWs point.


But no one has really brought back the classic organ sound to rock music!

They found stuff that sounded better, using a synth. :P


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:11 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
They found stuff that sounded better, using a synth. :P


I attended a Steve Winwood concert a few weeks ago. It was really weird hearing a bass guitar without SEEING a bass guitar. Winwood used the synthesizer to play bass. Very distracting.

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:28 pm 
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Blackstar wrote:
But no one has really brought back the classic organ sound to rock music!


What about Steve Nieve on all those early Elvis Costello albums? Check out "The Beat"!

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:22 pm 
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Nothing beats a Hammond! The End. From Jimmy Smith to Lazy
What killed it? Jeff and AMW nailed it...its a mix of the versatlity of a synth, the cost, and the damn size. They are a mother to move around...


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Blackstar wrote:
Jeff wrote:
They found stuff that sounded better, using a synth. :P


I attended a Steve Winwood concert a few weeks ago. It was really weird hearing a bass guitar without SEEING a bass guitar. Winwood used the synthesizer to play bass. Very distracting.

Yeah, I'm all for keeping the music as simple and basic as possible...unless you're a techno/industrial band.
Bass, guitar, drum, maybe another guitar or a keyboardist. If it's all synth, then it's not very "live" sounding I don't think.


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:27 pm 
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It was OK for awhile - Swingin Medallions, Young Rascals, Dave Clark Five, Beatles (I'm Down, Animals, Question Mark & the Mysterions -

I think as time went on keyboard players went to synthizers and electric pianos and moved away from the organ. There were exceptions.

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:42 pm 
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Best and worst organ solos:

Best: "I Got The Blues"--The Rolling Stones
Worst: "Mr. Moonlight"--The Beatles


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:11 am 
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The organ still lives when it's put in the proper hands. "Phantom" Dan Federici of the E-Street Band is very unheralded for his playing.


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:13 am 
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Organs may be expensive and cumbersome, but I still miss them. As pointed out in earlier posts, they often added a warm church-like / gospel quality to songs which enhanced their sound.


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:58 am 
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Gregg Rolie played organ on Santana's first albums. And of course Jimmy Smith and Jimmy McGriff kept the Hammond sound alive in jazz. I was lucky to see both of them live and to say hello to Jimmy McGriff. I think some songs work best with organ while others work best with synthesizers (see the synth pop thread).

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:07 am 
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72stones wrote:
The organ still lives when it's put in the proper hands. "Phantom" Dan Federici of the E-Street Band is very unheralded for his playing.

I knew an organist in high school and we went to see Springsteen together. We walked around before the show and checked out the band's gear. He was stunned that Federici had an organ just like the one he had in his living room. (I was stunned that anyone would lug that thing around!) It was one of those "Hey, these guys play the same instruments we do -- I bet we could be in a real band!" moments.


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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:39 am 
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Robert Meagher wrote:
It was OK for awhile - Swingin Medallions, Young Rascals, Dave Clark Five, Beatles (I'm Down, Animals, Question Mark & the Mysterions -

I think as time went on keyboard players went to synthizers and electric pianos and moved away from the organ. There were exceptions.


? and the mysterians used a "farfisa". i think the discussion here is mostly about a hammond B-3.

mike finnegan stills plays one, had it on stage when i saw CSN a couple summers ago.

not only were they huge, heavy and bitch to carry around, you had to drag that leslie speaker around with it too. but those leslie's were great, when that horn got spinning in the there you knew the organist was geting down!

i wonder if the still even make hammond B-3 and leslies?

renny

p.s. the is even a line on chicago III "thinking of B-3's and leslies spinning round"

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:50 pm 
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From what I understand, volume was a concern for the keyboardist. The organ was always at a disadvantage in terms of volume when competing with electric guitars. When keyboardists discovered synthesizers that all changed. They could now cut through the sound like a knife. Rick Wakeman said that's why he did not use organ when they opened with "Siberian Khatru" in the 70's - the moog had much more impact as it was louder.

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 Post subject: What Killed The Organ In Rock 'n' Roll Music?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:32 pm 
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The organ has definitely made a comeback on the jazz scene in the last several years. Medeski, Martin & Wood use a lot of organ, and they're pretty funky too.


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