BBWA Hall of Fame voting results announced tonight. Since the Veterans Committee has decided to turn it into the Hall of Everyone We Know, they might as well let Clemons and Bonds in.
Gil Hodges belonged as one of the most important Boys of Summer and his taking the Amazing Mets to a World Championship
Jim Kaat - due to the number of games he won.
Tony Oliva as he was the best hitter in the AL for much of the 60's.
Electing folks to the Hall is good business for baseball - more traffic for the HOF, more interest and in the end - selling more t-shirts, etc.
I believe Rose, Bonds and Roger will all some day be there.
There are a lot of former players already in there that were not you most upstanding citizens.
Who knows if they gambled or cheated? We have heard plenty of rumors on a lot of them.
They were a product of their times as we all are. Not all of them shared the same views on minorities or folks that were different.
In the end IMO the decision should be on the players stats, record and what he did between the lines.
Baseball really wouldn't want a year happen where no one gets the call.
Good luck to all the candidates today.
_________________ The Yankees win, THE YANKEES WINNNNN!!!! Most people wouldn't know music if it came up and bit them on the ass. FZ "Well, that kind of puts a damper on even a Yankee win." -- Yankees announcer Phil Rizzuto after reading a bulletin that Pope Paul VI had died
I'm good with all three of them missing out. Bonds would have been a HOFer w/the steroids, but his ego wouldn't let him. And Rose - who knew the history of baseball pretty much in and out - violated one of the most sacrosanct rules, the one posted on the door to every clubhouse. But he thought he could get away with it. As long as the character clause is supposed to be considered when voting, they shouldn't get in.
_________________ Alan
"This is a true story, except for the parts that didn't happen." - Steven Wright
Pete may have had a chance of eventually getting in until the rumored dalliance with a 13 year old girl came to light. Now it will never happen.
My annual reminder. Career leader in hits, not in the Hall Career leader in home runs, not in the Hall Career leader in Cy Young Awards, who has 354 wins, and 4672 K's, not in the Hall.
Pete may have had a chance of eventually getting in until the rumored dalliance with a 13 year old girl came to light. Now it will never happen.
My annual reminder. Career leader in hits, not in the Hall Career leader in home runs, not in the Hall Career leader in Cy Young Awards, who has 354 wins, and 4672 K's, not in the Hall.
How far has baseball fallen, once America's Game and the greatest sport for people who like discussing stats, its now a disgrace. Seemed to all go downhill after The Strike of 1994 which cost the Yankees dearly especially Don Mattingly. And guess what? We are currently in a lockout and could lose the 2022 season. Great.
I think Pete Rose doesn't get in until after he dies. I think this is personal for too many people, that a man who risked so much of the game's credibility simply for money will not get to benefit from being able to call himself a HoF'er, or work in the game. This isn't about whether or not Pete Rose should be in the hall, this is about whether or not Pete Rose should benefit financially as a result of being in the hall.
I'm really torn on the Steroid era - they cheated (not legally, but morally), but the game encouraged and celebrated it. I'm not sure it's right that only the players pay the price for their collective crimes. But I also know that the retired player community is really torn on this issue as well, because the drug users took money out of their pockets, and jobs from people who weren't doing them. at the same time, they destroyed the sanctity of baseball's numbers. For the record, I probably would have put Clemens and Bonds in; maybe Palmeiro and A-Rod. But not the others.
I can't comment on Schilling's HoF case on IMWAN, but suffice to say, i think he deserves to be in.
And as for 1994 costing the Yankees, I'd like to point out that not only were the Expos the best team and favourites to win the WS that year, but as a result of the strike, the team's support collapsed, the players were sold off, and the team moved to Washington. So Montreal paid a much, much higher price than New York.
Oh, and congratulations to David Ortiz. I would have thought he had a solid case as a DH for a late cycle induction. But he WAS the emotional heart of the 2nd most important team in MLB while they broke their WS drought, and went through the Bombing. So that moves it up.
I still would have held him out until next year, and put Clemens, Bonds, Schilling and probably A-Rod in this year.
I'm good with all three of them missing out. Bonds would have been a HOFer w/the steroids, but his ego wouldn't let him. And Rose - who knew the history of baseball pretty much in and out - violated one of the most sacrosanct rules, the one posted on the door to every clubhouse. But he thought he could get away with it. As long as the character clause is supposed to be considered when voting, they shouldn't get in.
Pete Rose should be in, period. His playing career was spotless and there could always be some kind of explanation on his plaque discussing the betting scandal.
I've had a change of heart about Clemens and Bonds. The league knew they were cheating (and they knew that Sosa and McGuire were too), but they wanted the flash of all that power. They rode them for the revenues, so the holier-than-thou crap doesn't hold water for me anymore. If Clemens and Bonds had retired before they started using they would have both been locks for the hall. They should be in. Sosa and McGuire weren't hall of famers without the steroids.
_________________ Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear
Probably the best solution is an Asterisk Wing. You don't have to walk your grandchildren through that section, if you don't want to. Shadowy and dimly lit from my point of view. Yes, Bonds and Clemens (especially him) would have made the Hall without steroids, but still. And we can argue endlessly over the location of the Pete Rose plaque.
And if you do want to walk your grandkids through the exhibit (I can easily picture the noir lighting of venetian blind shadows on the walls), you can always have ... 'The Asterisk Talk.'
_________________ Some folks look for answers, others look for fights,
Some folks up in treetops, just a lookin' for their kites…
Gene Clines, a key member of the Pirates’ 1971 World Series-winning team and also a part of Major League Baseball’s first all-minority lineup, has died, the organization confirmed Thursday. He was 75.
No cause of death was given, and the Pirates’ statement said the family is requesting privacy at this time.
Clines, who played center field and hit second on that all-minority team, also coached in the big leagues for the Cubs, Astros, Mariners, Brewers and Giants. Clines worked in the Dodgers system as an outfield/baserunning coordinator, as well as a hitting instructor.
“Gene was a speedy outfielder who was a key member of our 1971 World Series team,” Pirates president Travis Williams said in a statement. “He made a tremendous impact on the game, not only as a player after his career with the Pirates, but also as a longtime coach in the big leagues.
“It was an honor to have Gene back in Pittsburgh this past September to recognize him and his teammates from our 1971 World Series championship team who took the field as part of Major League Baseball’s first all-minority lineup [Sept. 1, 1971].
“It was a joy to talk to him about his deep passion for baseball, his love for his teammates and his appreciation for the city of Pittsburgh. Our hearts go out to his wife Joanne, his children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.”
The Pirates selected Clines in the sixth round in 1966, and he hit .287 with 45 doubles, 14 triples, two home runs, 81 RBIs and 51 stolen bases in 452 games as a member of the Pirates from 1970-74.
Clines appeared in the playoffs three times as a player: in 1971, ’72 and ’74. After leaving Pittsburgh, Clines — who lived in Bradenton, Fla. — also played for the Mets (1975), Rangers (1976) and Cubs (1977-79).
RIP, sir. A fun player to watch when I was a kid.
_________________ Alan
"This is a true story, except for the parts that didn't happen." - Steven Wright
One man’s opinion. Based on how good the NFL play-offs have been, baseball needs to settle their issues and get their collectives butts onto the field and on tv. Figure out a way to pay 800 players with 8-10 billion in revenue.
One man’s opinion. Based on how good the NFL play-offs have been, baseball needs to settle their issues and get their collectives butts onto the field and on tv. Figure out a way to pay 800 players with 8-10 billion in revenue.
Pay them $10MM each (with 2 billion left over for select player bonuses) and let's get on with it.
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