from musictap--

Elektra will also break out their Expanded titles found in the Doors box Perception, providing the following titles individually.
On March 27, you'll be able to acquire LA Woman; Morrison Hotel; Strange Days; The Doors; The Soft Parade; and Waiting For the Sun, if you're wanting speciifc titles...



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According to a very long discussion at Hoffman, these expanded remasters will not only feature the bonus tracks found on the Perception box, but also the new stereo remixes found on the Perception DVD. The new stereo remixes will be replacing the current mixes. So, if you want the current ones, grab them while you can.
The Perception box is supposedly now OOP (already).

in a word - sickening.

renny

so these will just be the cds, not a cd and dvd combo?

GROWL. Why do they do this crap?? I would be ok with having a choice of remix or original but deleting the orignal mixes that have been around for 35 years is just WRONG.

I thought the DVDs in the box had 5.1 remixes, not stereo remixes. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are mistaken. Perception has Advanced Resolution (DVD-Audio) stereo remixes as well as the 5.1 or 5.0 mixes for each album. There's a Dolby 5.1 (maybe DTS) track as well, I think.

The Perception CDs have Bernie G.'s 1999 stereo remasters with bonus tracks appended.

The new individual album releases will have the stereo remixes, previously available only as DVD-A hi-rez tracks on the Perception box's 2nd disc for each album.

It will be the first CD release of the 40th Anniversary stereo remixes. The box's bonus tracks will also be on the new CDs.

According to All Music, "The Doors" in the Perception box is on CD "at its proper speed" for the first time. Anyone know if this is true, and does it make a difference? (And if true, why, with all these previous reissues, didn't they get it right until now?)

Yes, it's true. Yes, it makes a difference - think of the change in pitch alone, it allows for a more "lifelike" sound; it sounds "right". The slight tempo kick moves the songs along with a bigger head of steam.

My guess at why this is just now being corrected is that this is the first time they have gone back to the multitracks - this is the first remix as opposed to all other (remastered) releases using the same master tape as source.

This explanation isn't quite right - from what I've read the problem occurred in the mastering stage after the final tape was prepared, representing something as simple as playback on a machine different from the recording studio machines (different speeds from different drive motors). All I can figure is that they standardized issues/reissues to the "original" until now.

Any better theories out there?

I compared the 1st CD (Self Titled) from this box with the German Mini LP Sleeve version I previously wrote about in another thread. After several a/b's on Break On Through I couldn't find any significant sonic differences, so they probably are the 1999 remaster as has been speculated. I don't have the dvd to do a comparison with. I hadn't noticed this before, but the HDCD light comes on with these.

Only the 2nd disc will have the speed corrected remix, ....until they release the new CDs.

Nice... so even if you plunked down $100+ for the box set, you'd still need to purchase the standalone title to get the "corrected" The Doors on CD?

Yes, exactly - on CD. The box has DVD-A speed corrected remixes, but the CD contains the 1999 remastering.

This speed correction is unique only to The Doors (S/T). But it's still true that if you want any of the 40th Ann. remixes on CD you will have to buy the corresponding new individual CD. The box provides only DVD-A versions of the new mixes.

Many people are taking the analog out cables from their DVD-a players and plugging them into their CD recorders analog in, to be sampled and burned into CD format.

That's enough to give anyone a case of Renny-itis!

I'm not rebuying unless I get 5.1 individual releases. Simple as that.
Chip

no one, not one single solitary human being on the planet earth should ever buy another doors CD.

and even if that happened they probably would still continue to reissue them without the 45 mix of "light my fire" and without releasing "other voices" and "full circle".

i say again...sickening.

renny

I'd join in and complain except, at this point in time, Doors' management is (accidentally?) adding value to my Perception box, rather than devaluing it by issuing its entire contents in individual packages after the fact.

Not only is there no announced plan to issue the hi-rez mixes separately, but the CDs are a unique version in that they have the original mixes (1999 remaster) with the bonus tracks tacked on. Therefore, both discs for each album are available no where else.

One speculated (Hoffman forum) motive for the decision to issue the individual discs this way is that Doors' management ran into so much vehement criticism over the DVD-A releases that they just decided to avoid that controversy altogether. Remember, people were accusing them of setting us up to buy the future individual album issues in expensive 2 disc format, just to get the "corrected" hi-rez mixes.

Did they make the only decision they could from the corner we backed them into?

The announced releases offer new product with the new mixes while avoiding the surround mix problem altogther.

I personally would not be surprised if we see the hi-rez releases in the future...despite whatever critisism they may have had (and one has to always consider who's complaining) , the hi-rez was most likely the main motivating factor for the majority purchasing the box in the first place. I imagine there will not be a major demand for the re-releases as vanilla CDs (possible exception being the Doors - but again most of the general public won't really care about the speed issue - most likely be annoyed if its noticeably different), other than when they become the only versions available for that segment of youngters just discovering the Doors (unless they download of course). I'm more than happy with the 'complete' box as far as CDs go.

At least you can still buy the box on Amazon if one desires.

I wouldn't be surprised to see hi-rez individual issues too, just not this year. Why? ...because the confrontation on the Doors website had fans turning into extreme consumer advocates as the discussions heated up. They practically demanded replacement discs for Waiting For The Sun when it was conceded that it is a 5.0 mix, not 5.1 as advertised. On the other side, "Doors Management" invited them to return their boxes for complete refund, with the stipulation that they never buy another Doors product again.

It represented a complete breakdown/failure for this type of forum. Bruce Botnick had spoken with the fans directly and frankly. He was far too casual and unguarded to be speaking with those people in their consumer mode. By the time it escalated to the never-buy-another-Doors-product-again state, it was clear that the record company's complaint handlers should have been taking the brunt of the criticism and deflecting it as they know how to do. "Doors Management" was just that - the band's mansger, not used to dealing with fuming consumers directly. Everyone was pushed too far. Apologies and retractions followed.

The cynical speculation before and after the breakdown of civility was that the individual issues this year would contain "fixed" 5.1 mixes that we would all be asked to purchase again. Therefore, I have to say that I don't believe we will see the DVD-A discs released without a waiting period.

Wow, Tom... that really is quite the breakdown to be sure. I was interested in the hi-rez, but not enough to buy the box - I was/am gambling it would eventually get to BMG as the other versions have. I had heard some complaints regarding the hi-rez which further lessened their appeal. I hope the Doors camp does right for their fans if it was that poorly done.

The truth of the matter is that there is nothing wrong with Waiting For The Sun except that it isn't presented as advertised (5.0 vs 5.1). It can present a problem for a few consumers who don't have full range speakers all around, or whose playback systems can't channel the bass to their bass unit or subwoofer.

Choosing 5.0 is a legitimate decision. Look at David Crosby's If I Could Only Remember My Name CD/DVD reissue from last fall. The original recording engineer did the hi-rez mixes choosing 5.0 intentionally for reasons explained in the liner notes.

Bruce Botnick, producer & lead engineer for the Perception box, went online at the Doors site and candidly admited that Waiting For The Sun was supposed to be 5.1 like all the others. When they discovered that they had begun their surround mix in 5.0, they listened to the work so far and decided they liked it as is. Then they finished the whole album as 5.0. I think he honestly believed that the fans would appreciate knowing the inside story, and would trust/honor his decision.

But the overall discussion had heated up beyond that by that time. All the albums are supposed to have 5.1 according to the sticker on the outside of the box, therefore the fans were wanting replacement discs "corrected" to 5.1. The whole discussion went to hell from there.

The truth is that the hi-rez mixes sound great! Coming from the multitracks they breathe new life into the albums and I'm sure that will show in the new CDs as well. The surround mixes go beyond the stereo in that they are a real kick to listen to. Chills wash across you and leave the hair on your arms and neck standing in appreciation. Don't make the mistake of letting consumer complaints about one engineering decision stop you from buying Perception. Doors' fans have too much to loose out on should they pass on buying the box.

Will all of this upgraded audio be obsolete in ten years? Here's what gets me about these remasters (and this goes for any number of other artists as well)--Ten years ago or so, I was hoodwinked into shelling out some cash for a few of those gold CD's, which were advertised as being the "ultimate" editions of the albums in question. While it is comforting to my ego to own such Cadillac-type discs, I don't know if the sound really matters to me all that much. I have the new version of "Empty Glass" with the bonus tracks, as well as the "Gold" version (that even came in a deluxe cardboard box) that was produced in the mid-1990's, and while I suppose I could set aside a couple of hours and give both versions the old "A-B" comparison...I just don't care which one sounds better, especially if the differences are so negligible that I have to play them side-by-side to even tell what they are. What's more frustrating to me these days with CD collecting is that I can't seem to find much new music that I like, not better sounding versions of music I've heard a million times already.

Personally the only hi rez I care about is 2.0 STEREO.