Thinking on Godland's lack of success, you can't help but notice a trend.

Sure, people like pointing to the genius of Galactus or the Fourth World, but despite the praise heaped upon cosmic stuff -- fans just seem to stay away.

Despite being one of their most famous heroes, the Silver Surfer never seems to hang onto a series the same way Iron Man or Captain America does. Dr. Strange has the same problem -- his encounters with Eternity and Dormammu are considered brilliant, but he never holds onto a series. Adam Warlock seems to have the same problem -- while the Starlin work is revered, I think I remember reading it never really tore up the sales charts.

So what is it? Why don't they ever seem to succeed a la Star Wars or whatever?

I love those kind of stories and always have - but I think they're seen as belonging to a bygone era or something. That's my take on it, anyway.

Where is the relatable character or experience. Norrin Radd is no Peter Parker. Huge amount of ongoing stories has some relatable hook. Even Star Wars has the Farmboy encountering the Big Universe for the first time.

The idea of someone having a transcendent experience is an age-old mythic theme, so there's plenty of precedent for these kinds of stories being popular. Even Luke Skywalker goes from being the wide-eyed farm boy we first see to being a kind of spiritual, pseudo-mystical Knight, and The Force is described in typically 'cosmic' terms. He transforms from an ordinary guy into something much more, as do all superheroes and mythical/folkloric figures, because of a transcendent experience.

I just think the Kirby-Crackle and so on is viewed, in comic book terms, as being a relic of the past, or evocative of a certain era. I cut my teeth on Adam Warlock, The Silver Surfer and 70's Marvel, so I see the whole 'cosmic' angle from a very nostalgic viewpoint - anything that reminds me of that stuff will instantly have my attention, and Godland is that to the Nth degree.

Bronze-Age Marvel was full of stuff like The Elders of the Universe and the High Evolutionary and all manner of stuff like the Eternals and whatever, so this kind of thing is very familiar territory for me.

Even Howard the Duck had a kind of cosmic angle to it, in terms of how he arrived on Earth and the fact that he was said to have some kind of destiny that involved saving it.

The drawback for me is that there often seems to be no limit to the powers available to the storyline. Too much temptation to use a deus ex machina like the Ultimate Nullifier.

Yeah, maybe space comics spend too much time in space.

I like the idea that you can use the setting to explore various sweeping, all-encompassing themes; ones that allow you to get really grandiose with the scope of the story you can tell.

I do think these types of things are easy to do badly, though - certain people do them exceptionally well, and I think Jim Starlin was one of them, and so was John Byrne when he was in his prime. Steve Gerber was another one who 'got' this stuff, and of course Jack Kirby was the originator of the cosmic comic book style epic.

The recent success of Green Lantern over at DC does indicate that some "cosmic" storylines can still appeal to a wide audience.

I'm a fan of Godland but I think it didn't do well, at least partially, because the art (despite the cosmic pretensions) always came across as very rough and underground.

I'm with you -- I think he could have helped this by just making the faces more attractive. Same blocky Kirby figures and weird squiggles -- just give them attractive faces.

Or hire a Joe Sinnott clone to ink it.

Well, judging from the interview, it didn't make enough money for them to even continue it -- so even if they wanted to, they probably couldn't afford to pay an inker.

I've been a fan of Cosmic stories for ages. But I think, with Marvel anyway, they Super-Hero it up -just a touch- too much. I never even realized it until the Annihilation series came out and changed the Sci-Fi to Superhero ratio around. I mean, both were still there, but it seemed more sci-fi than superhero. They actually weren't but the writing was sharp and the overall look was changed to a more science fiction tone. Sadly it didn't get the recognition it deserved because Civil War was happening at the same time, but it did well enough to get 2 sequels, a new Nova series and the Guardians revival.

Sadly now, the ratio is reversed and the Guardians are being written as Space Avengers.

I'm the opposite. I liked Mongul better than Thanos because he was more of a superhero villain. But then cosmic stories aren't my thing.

Really it's anything that isn't traditional superheroes for the most part. Cosmic, supernatural/fantasy, western, crime, and horror tend to come and go in waves.

And mostly traditional Marvel and DC superheroes.

But I just wonder why this subgenre of supeheroes is such a tough sell... or is it that it hasn't been "done right" in a way that has mainstream appeal? Too much philosophy and navel-gazing, not enough easy to digest plots, action and soap opera elements?

I think people's responses are indicative of the general feeling - "not relatable", etc. I find this stuff amazing and endlessly fascinating, but it's clearly a niche group of readers, within the broader range of comic book readers, who enjoy this stuff.

I also really do think it has - among comic book readers, anyway - the aura of 'Bronze Ageness' about it, and I think that puts some people off. It comes across as being like a do-over of something from long ago, rather than as a genre in its own right with its own tropes, underlying themes, etc (or something).

Yeah, this as well. Anything that isn't recognizably superheroic does tend to be relegated to the sidelines. Cosmic storylines will always have a place in comics, but perhaps only as a setting/backdrop for superheroic tales.

Having said that, I can't see why Godland wouldn't make money. It's disappointing.

This thread has prompted me to start re-reading Godland from the start. It really is beautifully done, and it's clearly a labour of love.

I'm up to volume 4. I dropped off after the second TPB but kept buying the collections.

Now that the final volume is about to come out this month, I decided to go ahead and start back from the beginning.



http://www.amazon.com/dp/1607066203/?tag=imwan-20


Pretty cool overall, but as said before -- I think it would have helped the book's marketability if Scioli made the faces more attractive and eased back on the the unnecessary squiggles and ink blobs. The way he draws Final Frontier is less labored and more attractive, IMO.

That dood with the square head looks like a rip off from the Moon Patrol comic!

Don't let you-know-who hear about it!