Seeing several random threads pop up, like Jay's recent Green Lantern query, got me thinking that it would be nice to have a on-going thread that covers these sorts of questions.

So anyway -- in Knightfall, it was Azrael who took down Bane in the end. So when did Batman have his rematch? How did go? Good story?

He took down a Venom-less Bane pretty quickly later on, but I don't remember the story arc. It was basically "I'm not tired and beaten down, and you're not pumped on 'roids...NEXT!"

Ugh, I hate when they do that. Loeb did the same thing to Doomsday during his run with Ed McGuinness (which is even worse, since Superman has a problem with finding truly formidable enemies).

Bane could have been developed into an awesome recurring villain, a la Venom for Spider-Man. Instead, they put down some character they hate and meanwhile, Batman loses an opponent that can match him physically.

Did they do the same thing with the KGBeast?

This reminds me of Loeb's Superman/Batman: Public Enemies storyline, where Batman and Superman beat up half of their rogue's gallery all at once. Okay, great, they're badasses -- now tell me why I should be interested in stories where they need to fight those foes individually again.

For Dr. Strange fans -- is there a list of all the realms in Dr. Strange's universe? I know there's Dormammu's and Nightmare's respective dimensions, but what else?

Was Eternity in his own dimension? I can't recall.

KGBeast came back many times as a "normal" villain, but no real memorable stories. He took him down as easily as anyone else. I think Robin took him down on his own once too. They do this all the time with badass villains; there's no real way to keep bringing them back established as these difficult opponents when you're doing it every year. They could use them sparingly, but then they want to cash in on the popularity while it's there.

I know they need to lose everytime but they don't need to be total wimps. Lady Shiva was supposed to be some ultimate fighter and in Loeb's mini, Batman KOed her no problem. They need to lose, but make the hero earn it -- it makes the villain a credible threat for future use and the stories better. They never make Dr. Doom or Darkseid easy villains, do they? Of course not, they're trying to keep them cool.

They should look at a villain, figure out what's cool and interesting about him, and focus on that. It doesn't matter if it is the Joker or the Porcupine Man.

Hell, that should be done for every character. Fans can consider characters C and D-list, but a writer shouldn't.

I don't think they ever have to earn it as much with recurring villains (other than the biggest ones, like Joker or Dr Doom). Darkseid used to be saved for big event stories, so when he showed up it was always a major deal.

Shiva, yes. Many, many others, yes. Wimped down in their later appearances. I don't know why, but that's just what they often do.

Right. Bane should be the evil version of Batman, a la Prometheus or Owlman. All that "if Batman had time to prepare" stuff being done to him. The KGBeast is all about physical superiority -- Batman must outsmart him, not try to match him punch for punch.

I think it's either lazy writing or a writer/editor who doesn't like that character. Like when Byrne blew up Shooter's hometown in Starbrand.

Yeah, I agree. It seems to make the most sense.

Their rematch happened in the "Legacy" crossover in 1996, which was a sort-of sequel to the previous year's "Contagion". However, I would classify it more as an "incomplete". Batman was clearly winning but the battle was disrupted.

For what it's worth, Denny O'Neil had Jean-Paul Valley as Azrael defeat Bane not once but twice during the 1998 "Cataclysm" storyline.

Later he took Bane down (who was Ubu at the time) in about 20 seconds to get to Ra's Al Ghul. They really abused Bane after Knightfall/Knightsend.

As for KGBeast, those Robin battles were kind of annoying in that writer Chuck Dixon changed his personality. The Beast as originally portrayed by Starlin/Aparo in "Ten Nights of the Beast" was very intelligent and was very fluent in English. Dixon made the Beast speak very poor broken English and didn't portray him as nearly as intelligent, IMO.

Incidentally, why did every big bald guy who worked for Ra's become Ubu? I think it's because he was drawn distinctly different by a couple of artists back in the 70s, and DC's modern continuity incestuous slaves couldn't let it go without explanation, so now every one of them is "an Ubu" but a different guy.

There is one.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=85119

Then no WAN will mind that I've changed this thread's title to "KGBeast and Bane questions for Jeff".

I'm here to help. Avatar change to the cowl.

Also, all IMWANkers are requested to participate in our important new KGBeast and Bane discussions:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87531

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87532

Ha, I didn't even think to do a search!

Maybe Ubu isn't a name so much as a position or station?

I think that's what they turned it into the 90s or 00s...but it was clearly not the original intent; two guys just drew the big bald guy differently! I blame Didio.