Personally I have had no interest since Shooter was forced out. Too bad they didn't bring back the originals. I'd have loved to have seen some of those storylines continue, like Harbinger.
_________________ DISCLAIMER: Everything I say from here on in is my opinion, semantics be damned. Allen Berrebbi Owner KRB Media
I really tried with Valiant. I have over 1300 Valiants in my collection, which means most of the run before the last incarnation. Eventually, it got too tough to get the books from my local store, and the titles I liked most, like Doctor Solar, Eternal Warrior and Archer and Armstrong, seemed to take a back seat to the ones that to me were less interesting, like Harbinger and XO Manowar. Harbinger in particular always seemed like a poor man's X-Men and was very unappealing.
I liked Valiant well enough at the time. I started with them mainly to read their take on Magnus Robot Fighter, but I ended up liking XO, and Archer & Armstrong well enough. I bought others like Rai, Bloodshot, Eternal Warrior, Turok, Solar, Psi-Lords, etc, but I couldn't tell you much about them now.
I bought them fairly steadily from their inception because I have a soft spot for Magnus, but I thought they were a little bland until after Shooter was forced out and the creators were allowed to do their own thing a little more. Barry Windsor-Smith's books were very good, of course, and I liked Mike Baron's take a on a few characters. If I recall correctly Tim Truman took over Turok and I enjoyed it for a while. But those creators disappeared (likely because they weren't getting paid regularly) and the line collapsed. They were just another company that profited from and then succumbed to the '90s bubble. I can't see any reason to try to revive them.
_________________ “Don’t take life too serious. It ain’t nohow permanent.”
I didn't know that comics were still being sold under the Valiant name again.
Nor had I ever heard of this "Alien Books" outfit that has apparently taken them over.
_________________ The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls who, when he found an especially costly one, sold everything he had to buy it.
I went back and got into the Valiant stuff in the Jim Shooter thread (I go on and on about it in the thread, but here's the first post where I start looking back at it) --
I get nostalgic for "The Unspoken Decade" from time to time and was reading some of the early Valiant comics for the first time yesterday, Solar: Man of the Atom and Harbinger.
I gotta say, Shooter's writing actually impressed me, especially in comparison to the writing of the same era found in the books I'm familiar with from the same time period -- the X-Men titles, the Spider-Man books, the Ultraverse books, and most definitely the Image titles. But then, I guess I shouldn't be surprised -- I enjoyed his issues of Legion of Superheroes (The Death of Ferro Lad HC is what made me a LoSH and Curt Swan fan) and the first 6-7 issues of Starbrand he did with John Romita JR.
In the first Solar arc (about 4-6 issues, can't recall), I thought he took some daring writing choices by making the story non-linear and doing some weird stuff with the multiple versions of the main character, Phil Seleski. It was interesting, if nothing else (which is usually my only criteria to get baseline enjoyment out of writing). In the two issues of Harbinger I read, he was doing the typical "teen with superpowers is hunted by evil corporation" trope, but I felt he did it in a way that was well paced and felt believable. But the real star of his writing was building the Valiant universe's arch-villain, Toyo Harada, into a real menacing character with some depth and intrigue to him.
Now maybe these stories won't really end well and I won't feel he's so good later on, but based on what I read last night, I have to say I found them pretty enjoyable despite a lack of visual interest and superhero costumes (outside of Barry Smith's Solar segments and Solar himself, natch). I think he has a good feel for "realistic" superheroes and the quality of writing feels more like a science fiction novel of the time instead of a typical superhero comic.
That all said, you can really see why Image was so much more successful. The audience for comics was still mainly pre-teen / teenage boys and we wanted to see costumes and cool-looking stuff on every other page. The vast majority of these books are adults talking in offices with little visual interest to carry that end of the book. Conversations don't have to be visually boring -- look at an Eisner, Kirby, or Frank Miller comic -- but Shooter's devotion to "extremely clear storytelling even to the detriment of exciting storytelling and visual engagement" probably hurt the Valiant books' salability... at least in comparison to Marvel and Image.
I mean, take a look at this Jim Lee cover to HARD Corps #1 -- it's just guys in jump suits and none of them look particularly cool. Now this definitely makes it feel more realistic but I can't imagine a 12-year old seeing that and thinking, "Hell yeah. Sorry, X-Force, but I gotta check out these guys!"
Especially in comparison to what Jim Lee was drawing elsewhere --
(Side Note: I always wondered why Jim Lee drew the cover of HARD Corps #1 while he was building a competing company in Image / WildStorm -- I just read last night that Valiant roped him in by getting him tickets to a sold-out U2 show!)
After Shooter left, Valiant started making more of an effort to appeal to the kiddos --
I bought them fairly steadily from their inception because I have a soft spot for Magnus, but I thought they were a little bland until after Shooter was forced out and the creators were allowed to do their own thing a little more. Barry Windsor-Smith's books were very good, of course, and I liked Mike Baron's take a on a few characters. If I recall correctly Tim Truman took over Turok and I enjoyed it for a while. But those creators disappeared (likely because they weren't getting paid regularly) and the line collapsed. They were just another company that profited from and then succumbed to the '90s bubble. I can't see any reason to try to revive them.
I felt the opposite and thought it went downhill when Shooter left. The biggest problem was the inconsistent and sometimes poor art and coloring. This was a line that really needed to stay small and keep going.
_________________ DISCLAIMER: Everything I say from here on in is my opinion, semantics be damned. Allen Berrebbi Owner KRB Media
I went back and got into the Valiant stuff in the Jim Shooter thread (I go on and on about it in the thread, but here's the first post where I start looking back at it) --
I get nostalgic for "The Unspoken Decade" from time to time and was reading some of the early Valiant comics for the first time yesterday, Solar: Man of the Atom and Harbinger.
I gotta say, Shooter's writing actually impressed me, especially in comparison to the writing of the same era found in the books I'm familiar with from the same time period -- the X-Men titles, the Spider-Man books, the Ultraverse books, and most definitely the Image titles. But then, I guess I shouldn't be surprised -- I enjoyed his issues of Legion of Superheroes (The Death of Ferro Lad HC is what made me a LoSH and Curt Swan fan) and the first 6-7 issues of Starbrand he did with John Romita JR.
In the first Solar arc (about 4-6 issues, can't recall), I thought he took some daring writing choices by making the story non-linear and doing some weird stuff with the multiple versions of the main character, Phil Seleski. It was interesting, if nothing else (which is usually my only criteria to get baseline enjoyment out of writing). In the two issues of Harbinger I read, he was doing the typical "teen with superpowers is hunted by evil corporation" trope, but I felt he did it in a way that was well paced and felt believable. But the real star of his writing was building the Valiant universe's arch-villain, Toyo Harada, into a real menacing character with some depth and intrigue to him.
Now maybe these stories won't really end well and I won't feel he's so good later on, but based on what I read last night, I have to say I found them pretty enjoyable despite a lack of visual interest and superhero costumes (outside of Barry Smith's Solar segments and Solar himself, natch). I think he has a good feel for "realistic" superheroes and the quality of writing feels more like a science fiction novel of the time instead of a typical superhero comic.
That all said, you can really see why Image was so much more successful. The audience for comics was still mainly pre-teen / teenage boys and we wanted to see costumes and cool-looking stuff on every other page. The vast majority of these books are adults talking in offices with little visual interest to carry that end of the book. Conversations don't have to be visually boring -- look at an Eisner, Kirby, or Frank Miller comic -- but Shooter's devotion to "extremely clear storytelling even to the detriment of exciting storytelling and visual engagement" probably hurt the Valiant books' salability... at least in comparison to Marvel and Image.
I mean, take a look at this Jim Lee cover to HARD Corps #1 -- it's just guys in jump suits and none of them look particularly cool. Now this definitely makes it feel more realistic but I can't imagine a 12-year old seeing that and thinking, "Hell yeah. Sorry, X-Force, but I gotta check out these guys!"
Especially in comparison to what Jim Lee was drawing elsewhere --
(Side Note: I always wondered why Jim Lee drew the cover of HARD Corps #1 while he was building a competing company in Image / WildStorm -- I just read last night that Valiant roped him in by getting him tickets to a sold-out U2 show!)
After Shooter left, Valiant started making more of an effort to appeal to the kiddos --
Image had better marketing and sexier art, which appealed to the younger readers. Plus they put out a rebel type attitude.
_________________ DISCLAIMER: Everything I say from here on in is my opinion, semantics be damned. Allen Berrebbi Owner KRB Media
Shakespeare famously said that "the valiant never taste of death but once." But I guess this comic book company has proven him wrong.
_________________ The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls who, when he found an especially costly one, sold everything he had to buy it.
I want to say that Valiant came out with an ad after Shooter's departure making fun of the perception that they had a house style, with artwork from some of the new artists.
I want to say that Valiant came out with an ad after Shooter's departure making fun of the perception that they had a house style, with artwork from some of the new artists.
When it went downhill.
_________________ DISCLAIMER: Everything I say from here on in is my opinion, semantics be damned. Allen Berrebbi Owner KRB Media
I want to say that Valiant came out with an ad after Shooter's departure making fun of the perception that they had a house style, with artwork from some of the new artists.
When it went downhill.
But up for me.
_________________ “Don’t take life too serious. It ain’t nohow permanent.”
I want to say that Valiant came out with an ad after Shooter's departure making fun of the perception that they had a house style, with artwork from some of the new artists.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
