I'm going to attempt (key word there) a chronological reading of Marvel and DC comics starting with the first issue of Fantastic Four in November of 1961.

Originally I was thinking of just doing all the major superhero Marvel titles published between Fantastic Four #1 through #102... but then I thought about how revolutionary the comics were supposed to be compared to DC books. So I figured, let's put it to the test!

So I'll be following the titles below the whole way through, with a few other random books thrown in there depending on my mood. I don't have the inclination to read every single thing each company did since I think it'll drag the whole thing out more than I'd like. But my intent is to read all of these from November 1961 through September 1970 --

Action Comics
Amazing Spider-Man
Avengers
Daredevil
Detective Comics
Fantastic Four
The Flash
Green Lantern
Incredible Hulk v1
Iron Man
Journey into Mystery / Thor
Justice League
Strange Tales / Dr. Strange
Superman
Tales of Suspense / Captain America
Tales to Astonish / Incredible Hulk v2
Uncanny X-Men

I also reserve the right to trim down that list in any way that helps me get through reading this in case I find the 'workload' too massive or to end it early in 1966 (right around the Coming of Galactus). Looking at it above, it does look like a lot of comics to get through.

Wish me luck!

I wish you luck.

I think you will also be able to detect the subtle positive influence Ditko had, when read chronologically. Especially 1964, when he had Spider-man and Doctor Strange going, and then launched into a great soap opera with Hulk in Tales to Astonish.

This project is going to start with a lot of DC, as Marvel's superhero line takes a little while to get going. For the month of November 1961, courtesy of Mike's Amazing World's newsstand feature, I have Action Comics #282, Detective Comics #297, Fantastic Four #1, The Flash #124, Green Lantern #9, and Superman #149.






It seems that DC comics, except for Action and Detective Comics, have a very unusual 8 issues a year publishing schedule -- they publish two months in a row, take a month off, two months in a row, take a month off, etc.So this month, it looks like I won't be seeing the FF's inspiration, the Justice League of America, just yet.

Last night, I was able to get through Action Comics, Detective Comics and the first half of Fantastic Four... and already, you notice a pretty huge difference in characterization and tone.

In Action Comics #282, we see a "day in the life of Superman". The story basically has Superman assigning a Clark Kent robot to take Lois on a date through a plastic factory (gee, I wonder why she thought Clark was so lame) since his plate is full patrolling the world and helping people. Early in the date, the robot accidentally rests his hands in some spilled solvent that melts off the plastic. He spends the rest of the date figuring out ways to keep his hands in his pockets until Superman can come and put new fake skin on his hands. So when people ask the time or want to shake hands, he has to figure out a way to get out of it without seeming too awkward. It's sorta amusing but ultimately bizarre, full of weird Silver Age logic for the characters.

The Supergirl back-up story starts off with Supergirl having lost her powers unless she is in another time period. It turns out that a Kandorian who coincidentally is an exact double (a lot of that seems to go around in the Silver Age) wants to supplant Supergirl on Earth and eventually destroy Superman and take over the world. It's another really odd story with an odd resolution as Mxy gives Supergirl her powers back sans weakness to Kryptonite in some ill-conceived plot to humiliate Superman.

Detective Comics #297 looks especially dated -- while the Flash, GL, and Superman have more modern looks for the time, Dick Sprang's Batman still looks stuck in the Golden Age. The story involves an elaborate plot by to kill someone through use of a gigantic robot monster based on a local legend. The real monster eventually surfaces and helps Batman solve the case through very dubious reasoning. Probably the coolest part of Batman operating the robot monster to battle back the real monster, who Batman kills. Pretty standard Silver Age stuff. The back-ups feature the Martian Manhunter in a bizarre anti-vigilantism crusade (considering he's essentially a vigilante himself) and Aquaman forcing Aqualad to serve as the stunt double for a spoiled child actor.

The first chapter of Fantastic Four #1 is a pretty massive shift from the stories above -- where the DC characters all seem like super-responsible and even-tempered guys, the FF feel more like the emotional and bombastic supporting characters they deal with. The sheer destruction the Fantastic Four create upon being summoned by Mister Fantastic has been commented on in the past, so I won't go into it, but that sequence along with the actual origin story feel more like a bizarre fever-dream than a superhero story. Anyone that was reading DC superhero comics exclusively must have found the first two chapters of this story fairly jarring. There's a sense of danger in the Fantastic Four that we're not seeing in the two DC comics I read before this one and Kirby's artwork definitely has a sense of movement and calamity that feels very different from the DC books. The "camera" angles are definitely more dynamic.

That said, they've all had one thing in common so far -- they're really, really weird. Even the tamest of the DC stories so far in the Aquaman back-up and Action Comics Superman story seem surreal and bizarre in both concepts and characterization. We'll see how the more innovative DC titles of the time in Green Lantern and the Flash stack-up to Fantastic Four next.

Cool thread.

You can really see that Marvel/Atlas had become a giant monster/menace company at that point. Even though it was intended to be a superhero comic, FF #1 flows directly from the lineage of all those monster comics where radiation or something creates a big destructive monster. The ominous feeling is there, instead of that brightness in things like Superman and GL.

Yeah, cool thread. Good luck with it.

I would've been such a Carmine Infantino and Gil Kane fan in this era....

Just from the covers that Detective one would interest me the least. The art is stiff and old fashioned looking. I have read all the rest of those, but if I read that issue of 'Tec, it didn't stick in my head.

I think I've only read the FF and Flash. Maybe the GL, but I can't remember.

I had to pause to tell if that was a real cover or one of those Robin in the corner meme covers.

I'll be reading this thread with interest. I think you've nailed the essential difference between the big two that existed even at this very early stage (the vastly differing overall tone), and it should be interesting to see how the two publishers become similar, and remain different, in the years afterwards.

My overall impression has always been that they both mirrored the 60's ad 70's in differing ways - they always responded to various themes, trends and concepts through the lens of their own 'house styles', and so they each retained a uniqueness that set them apart from one another.

Not that I'm an expert, but I was reading loads of 60's Marvel and DC stuff as a nine and ten year old (reprints), concurrently with reprints of more recent stuff (in my childhood world, Adam Warlock was happening concurrently with Ditko-era Spidey, Lee/Kirby FF, Kirby's Hulk, Carmine Infantino's Flash and Wayne Boring's Superman, as well as Kubert's Hawkman and Marvel's Planet of the Apes comics, as well as Bill Everett's Namor).

Even as a kid, I could see there was a difference between 'the Superman world' and the 'The Spider-Man world', even if I couldn't describe or explain it. I got that POTA was its own thing, and had nothing to do with the other stuff, and that certain superhero characters never interacted, etc, but I didn't really understand why that was or how it all worked.

This should be a fun thread.

By those covers it appears that Swan is an illustrator and Infantino should've been working in animation.

That Death of Superman story is one of the all time greats.

Yeh but it's only imaginary...

I love these threads and I hope you can keep it up mate (that's what SHE said). I didn't read much DC at all when I was reading these things all the time, because they didn't do British reprints. Every DC comic I did try then when I could get hold of them seemed to be for much younger readers than Marvel (I was ten but had ideas above my station) and so didn't appeal to me much. It'll be interesting to see what I missed.

DC was bursting with creativity and interesting ideas in the 1960s but they kept things a bit too simple from a narrative and characterization aspect(as far as us adults readers go, at least). I feel like DC was aiming at 5-10 year olds while Marvel was aimed at 9-15 year olds.

I wonder if part of that was Marvel's earlier shift to monster/sci-fi/horror comics. There's a higher level of complexity in those stories (although they were still formulaic) and much more of a built-in moral gray area. It seems like Lee, Kirby, and Ditko brought that sensibility over to their superhero comics, while DC was continuing the post-Wertham style of non-violent black and white superhero stories.

I think you should add Millie the Model and Patsy Walker into the project.

I think you should stop making reading suggestions, cupcake.

Hanzo will give up on maintaining this thread before he gets to 1963.

Yeah, the first group of superheroes were launched as if they were as much a monster book as they were a superhero book, if not moreso. The Fantastic Four, Ant-Man and the Hulk didn't have costumes in their first appearances and the covers look like monster book covers.

So you've got FF in November 1961, Ant-Man in January 1962 and the Hulk in May 1962, all introduced without costumes. The FF get their costumes in #3, published in March 1962, which I guess is the first overt signal to readers that this was a superhero book. You don't really see another overt superhero with a costume and everything until August 1962, where both Spider-Man and Thor are introduced. And then the next month, Ant-Man finally gets a second appearance with a costume and everything.

I think Thor is the first big shift, as all the other characters seem to be science-based (well, fake science, anyway) and tragic. Thor not only is an overt superhero, but his powers are based on magic.

That's probably true. I think the only way to avert it would be to dramatically cut down on how many series I'm reading. If I had to trim, I think I'd go to just Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Thor, Superman, Flash, Green Lantern and JLA (one more for DC because none of those titles are monthly).

But then you'd miss out on the Kubert/Anderson Hawkman runs, which were awesome.