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Kid Nemo
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:09 am |
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Hen Teaser
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Joined: | 05 Apr 2011 |
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Tough guys,femme fatales,usually set in the '40s,usually filmed in black and white
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Todd
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:20 am |
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I am not Taupe
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Joined: | 14 Apr 2005 |
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Best. Poll. Ever.
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Rafael
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:56 am |
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Traveler
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Blade Runner.
Unless we want to get really strict, then it would be Touch of Evil.
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Todd
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:42 am |
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I am not Taupe
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Joined: | 14 Apr 2005 |
Posts: | 22613 |
Location: | Chiss |
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Movies from above I watched for my AMAD project.
9/9 Out of the Past. 1947. “I don’t wanna die, but if I have to, I wanna die last” Film noir, starring Robert Mitchum and Kirk Douglas. Jeff Bailey (Mitchum) is a gas station owner who is secretive about his past, obviously fearing that something will catch up to him. A stranger recognizes him, telling him he needs to go see Sterling in Lake Tahoe. Mitchum is young and rugged, ready for action, as he flashes back to gambler Whit Sterling (Kirk Douglas) hiring him to find a dame who shot him and stole his 40g’s. It was directed by Jacques Tourneur famous for his directing work with Val Lewton on the RKO horror films. This historical classic is almost the definition of the convoluted, dreamlike storyline and its chiaroscuro cinematography (thx wiki!). Extremely entertaining.
9/12 Detour. 1945. Classic film noir about piano player Al Martin suffering a severe case of ennui when his gal heads to Cali to find here future. On a whim, he decides to hitchhike to Cali to be with her. Al is picked up by a rich man in a convertible, and after the driver's natural death, it all goes wrong, fast. His fate is sealed, when he magnanimously picks up a his own hitchhiker, a classic femme fatale (Vera Savage). Quality of the print is somewhat hazy, owing, I suspect from the very cheap production values, flipped scenes, 20k and 6 day shoot!
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Tenebrae
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:04 am |
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The tightrope between suicide and aggressive joy.
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I don't know that I've seen either Out of the Past or Detour, but they're on my list now at the library (bet I recognize them when I see them).
It was really difficult to choose a favorite from the list, as there are quite a few awesome movies on it.
Does Pandora's Box (1929) count as film noir? It has wimpy guys and an amazing femme fatale (Louise Brooks)?
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Paulo
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:08 am |
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Pow-Lo
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I think I was too quick on the vote button again. I voted Double Indemnity, which is great, but I like Chinatown better.
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Bob
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:14 am |
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Joined: | 05 Aug 2004 |
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Location: | Attillan, Michigan |
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I voted for Out of the Past.
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Todd
IMWAN Mod |
Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:51 am |
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I am not Taupe
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Joined: | 14 Apr 2005 |
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Location: | Chiss |
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I have more movie notes to add. But I'm sitting in a breast cancer conference in San Antonio. I will add more later.
I think Double Indemnity might win over Out of the Past. Chinatown is great, but neo-noir loses something compared to the "classics".
Similarly, Maltese Falcon is a timeless classic of the Hardboiled Detextuve with double crtosses galore.
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Bolgani Gogo
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:18 am |
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Joined: | 11 Aug 2004 |
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I can't ever vote against Bogart.
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That meddlin kid
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:25 am |
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Biker Librarian
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"Maltese Falcon" is the best of the bunch, but I'm not used to seeing it described as "film noir." It doesn't seem as doom-laden as the noir movies usually are.
"Detour" isn't that great of a movie, but it's remarkably good when you consider what an extremely low budget they had. It was made by PRC, a tiny poverty-row studio where the budgets were far below what other studios spent on their B movies. They're best remembered for goofy Bela Lugosi movies like "The Devil Bat."
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Li'l Jay
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:09 pm |
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It scorched
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Joined: | 28 May 2006 |
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Double Indemnity wins for Billy Wilder factor.
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Tuna
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:17 pm |
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Still Not A Dalmatian In A Jaunty Beret
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The hopeless McGuffin factor of Maltese Falcon boosts it into noir, IMO. The stuff of dreams that weighs you down while slipping through your fingers like a heavy mist in a dark alley.
Big Sleep, with the chemistry between Bacall and Bogey, is a favorite of mine.
I need to watch/rewatch the rest. And, yeah, Bladerunner.
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Jeff
IMWAN Mod |
Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:18 pm |
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The Modfather; Wizard of WAN
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Lot of great movies up there. I love Gene Tierney so I'm voting Laura though. 
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Li'l Jay
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:36 pm |
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It scorched
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Joined: | 28 May 2006 |
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That meddlin kid wrote: "Maltese Falcon" is the best of the bunch, but I'm not used to seeing it described as "film noir." It doesn't seem as doom-laden as the noir movies usually are. I can't see how you got this impression -- seriously, it seems about as noir as noir gets. Spoilers for those who haven't seen it. Ms. Wonderly is lying, not a bona fide client like she claims to be. Gets Sam's partner killed right off the bat with a fake assignment she was conniving on. Fat Man wants to hire Sam, and it becomes clear they're all bad guys trying to get their hands on the Falcon, and ultimately everybody goes down in flames. The "customer" that started the whole movie is a murderer and Sam turns her in. Sam was never working for anybody with good motives or a legitimate interest that needs to be vindicated It just seems to be the quintessentially noir film, with no "good guy" that ends up winning out (or we end up rooting for), no romance that ends up working out, and not even a valid quest that anybody was ever on.
_________________ Rom's kiss turned Rogue a hero.
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Jeff
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:17 pm |
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The Modfather; Wizard of WAN
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Agreed, Jay. It's pretty definitive noir, IMO.
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Hank
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:17 pm |
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Good Stuff, Maynard!
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Jeff wrote: Lot of great movies up there. I love Gene Tierney so I'm voting Laura though.  I voted Double Indemnity but regretted it immediately. Laura wins for its Vincent Price quotient.
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Fraxon!
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:21 pm |
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Todd
IMWAN Mod |
Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:16 pm |
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I am not Taupe
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Joined: | 14 Apr 2005 |
Posts: | 22613 |
Location: | Chiss |
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My favorite films noir have the protagonist presented sympathetically and makes a choice that leads to his/her own demise. The Postman Always Rings Twice, Double Indemnity, and the like. A sympathetic character who is in over his head, and gets screwed. The patsy as fall guy. They might get away with it for a while, but not forever (Our of the Past, and The Killers).
After watching so many noirs over the year of AMAD, i sought out Dashiell Hammett and Raymond Chandlers books and short stories. Their spectacular take of the rotten California underbelly in the 20s and 30s, all city-centric gave way to the most spectacular write I had never heard of Ross Macdonald - novels starring teh private eye Lew Archer. Macdonalds stories took place in the California of the late 40s-50s as suburbia was being created and a whole new lingo of crime and double crossing could be conceived. I recommend The Moving Target and The Drowning Pool most highly. They are spectacular to read, and MacDonald has the most gifted ability to use similes to great effect.
In the modern 'noir' I loved John Dahl's Red Rock West and The Last Seduction which play true to that archetypical patsy formula.
Back to work.
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Li'l Jay
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:26 pm |
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It scorched
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One of my favorite passages in any book -- the so-called "Flitcraft Parable" in The Maltese Falcon. It has no connection to the plot or characters. Just an interlude, a story that Sam Spade relays. Quote: Spade sat down in the armchair beside the table and without any preliminary, without an introductory remark of any sort, began to tell the girl about a thing that had happened some years before in the Northwest. He talked in a steady matter-of-fact voice that was devoid of emphasis or pauses, though now and then he repeated a sentence slightly rearranged, as if it were important that each detail be related exactly as it had happened.
At the beginning Brigid O'Shaughnessy listened with only partial attentiveness, obviously more surprised by his telling the story than interested in it, her curiousity more engaged with his purpose in telling the story than with the story he told; but presently, as the story went on, it caught her more and more fully and she became still and receptive.
A man named Flitcraft had left his real-estate-office, in Tacoma, to go to luncheon one day and had never returned. He did not keep and engagement to play golfafter four that afternoon, though he had taken the initiative in making the engagement less than half and hour before he went out to luncheon. His wife and children never saw him again. His wife and he were supposed to be on the best of terms. He had two children, boys, one five an dthe other three. He owned his house in a Tacoma suburb, a new Packard, and the rest of the appurtenances of successful American living.
Flitcraft had inherited seventy thousand dollars from his father, and, with his sucess in real estate, was worth something in the neighbourhood of two hundred thousand dollars at the time he vanished. His affars were in order, though there were enough loose ends to indicate that he had not been setting them in order preparatory to vanishing. Adeal tha would have brought him an attractive profit, for instance, was to have been concluded the day after the one on which he diappeared. There was nothing to suggest that he had more than fifty or sixty dollars in his immediate posession at the time of his going. His habits for months past could be accounted for too thoughly to justify any suspicion of secret vices, or even of another woman in his life, though either was barely possible.
"He went like that," Spade said, "like a fist when you open your hand,"
...
"... Well, that was in 1922. In 1927 I was with one of the big detective agencies in Seattle. Mrs. Flitcraft came in and told us somebody had seen a man in Spokane who looked a lot like her husband. I went over there. It was Flitcraft, all right. He had been living in Spokane for a couple of years as Charles - that was his first name - Pierce. He had a automobile-business that was netting him twenty or twenty-five thousand a year, a wife, a baby son, owned his home in a Spokane suburb, and usually got away to play glof after four in the afternoon during the season."
Spade had not been told very definitely what to do when he found Flitcraft. They talked in Spade's room at the Davenport. Flitcraft had no feeling of guilt. He had left his first family well provided for, and what he had done seemed to him perfectly reasonable. The only thing that bothered him was a doubt that he could make that reasonableness clear to Spade. He had never told anybody his story before, and thus had not had to attempt to make its reasonableness explicit. He tried now.
"I got it all right," Spade told Brigid O'Shaughnessy, "but Mrs. Flitcraft never did. She thought it was silly. Maybe it was. Anyway it came out all right. She didn't want any scandal, and, after the trick he had played on her - the way she looked at it - she didn't want him. So they were divorced on the quiet and everything was swell all around.
"Here's what happened to him. Going to luch he passed an office-building that was being put up - just the skeleton. A beam or something fell eight or ten stories down and smacked the sidewalk alongside him. It brushed pretty close to him, but didn't touch him, though a piece of the sidewalk was chipped off and flew up and hit his cheek. It only took a piece of skin off, but he still had the scar when I saw him. He rubbed it with his finger - well, affectionately - when he told me about it. He was scared stiff of course, he said, but he was more shocked than really frightened. He felt like somebody had taken the lid off life and let him look at the works."
Flitcraft had been a good citizen and a good husband and father, not by any outer compulsion, but simply because he was a man most comfortable in step with his surroundings. He had been raised that way. The people he knew were like that. The life he knew was a clean orderly sane responsible affair. Now a falling beam had shown him that life was fundamentally none of these things. He, the good citizen-husband-father, could be wiped out between office and restaurant by the accident of a falling beam. He knew then that men died at haphazard like that, and lived only while blind chance spared them.
It was not, primarily, the injustice of it that disturbed him: he accepted that after the first shock. What disturbed him was the discovery that in sensibly ordering his affairs he had got out of step, and not in step, with life. He said he knew before he had gone twenty feet from the fallen beam that he would never know peace until he had adjusted himself to this new glimpse of life. By tht time he had eaten his luncheon he had found his means of adjustment. Life could be ended for him at random by a falling beam: he would change his life at random by simply going away. He loved his family, he said, as much as he supposed was usual, but he knew he was leaving them adequately provided for, and his love for them was not of the sort that would make absence painful.
He went to Seattle that afternoon," Spade said, "and from there by boat to San Francisco. For a couple of years he wandered around and then drifted back to the Northwest, and settled in Spokane and got married. His second wife didn't look like the first, but they were more alike than they were different. You know, the kind of women that play fair games of golf and bridge and like new salad-recipes. He wasn't sorry for what he had done. It seemed reasonable enough to him. Idon't think he even knew he had settled back naturally in the same groove he had jumped out of in Tacoma. But that the part of it I always liked. He adjusted himself to beams falling, and then no more of them fell, and he adjusted himself to them not falling."
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That meddlin kid
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:51 pm |
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Biker Librarian
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Todd wrote: My favorite films noir have the protagonist presented sympathetically and makes a choice that leads to his/her own demise. The Postman Always Rings Twice, Double Indemnity, and the like. A sympathetic character who is in over his head, and gets screwed. The patsy as fall guy. They might get away with it for a while, but not forever (Our of the Past, and The Killers). I guess that's why I don't immediately think of "Maltese Falcon" as a film noir. I think of films noir as being about protagonists, at least partly sympathetic, who "get in over their heads," usually through bad choices, and find themselves on the road to destruction. I'm old-fashioned enough to believe that you really can put yourself on that kind of slippery slope if you don't watch the choices you make. "Maltese Falcon" may take place in as sordid a world as any film noir, but it's not really that kind of story.
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Rick Hannah
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:35 pm |
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Dashing Lay-About
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I would highly recommend '75's Farewell, My Lovely (a remake of Murder, My Sweet which was another version of The Falcon Takes Over), with Robert Mitchum. It can stand up to whatever the 30s and 40s can dish out.
Outside of not having Bogart, that is.
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Todd
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Post subject: Best Film Noir Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:43 pm |
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I am not Taupe
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Joined: | 14 Apr 2005 |
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Definitionally fIlm noir is about what the film looks like and the world the characters inhabit more than the narrative itself. Which is why the Hardboiled detective stories of Chandler and Hammett rightfully are called film noir when filmed.
Tho my own preferences are stated above, those other stories have the protagonist outside of, and potentially unscathed by the double crossing. See The Big Sleep, Maltese Falcon and the various Red Harvest movies (none of which was filmed noir but have a noirish story)
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