And at this point, when it comes to grabbing a potential reader and saying, "HEY, YOU NEED TO CHECK THIS OUT!", Jim Lee is indeed "far beyond" John Byrne. His commercial appeal is off the charts compared to Byrne.

Totally agree. I have Byrne a third tier comics artist at best (first would be the Will Eisners, Joe Kuberts, Jack Kirbys and Steve Ditkos, the second would be the John Buscemas, Alan Davis, Jose Garcia-Lopezs, etc.) Lee doesn't rate for me at all - I'd have him draw every cover I could, but I wouldn't trouble him with interiors.

You are absolutely correct, but Justin Bieber outsells BB King, who's one of the greatest, most influential musicians of all time. Commercial appeal doesn't carry much weight for me. Having said that, I'm buying both books so...

I've been working my way through the Claremont X-Men run through Essential X-Men. Of the two, I'd much rather have a pin-up by Jim Lee. I would rather have a comic by John Byrne. And I would prefer a comic done by Paul Smith than either of them.

Hells, yeah!

Why?

As far as raw drawing and illustration ability go, these guys are the best. Anatomy, lighting, linework, figurework, etc. all that stuff, they're tops.

But as storytellers, layouts, pacing and such, they're very good but not really any better than a John Byrne.

That's exactly why. They are every bit as good as Byrne at Byrne's strengths, but aren't burdened by his weaknesses. My Tier 2 guys are the standard of excellence. My Tier 1 guys are genius. Byrne's Tier 3 (at best).

I'm Tier 19,287.

Commercial appeal isn't a top consideration for me either, but when you look at what a comicbook artist's true job is -- making people pay money for magazines -- he's certainly an all-time great. If you consider the length of his reign on top, he's not so much a Justin Bieber or some other flash-in-the-pan -- he's a Madonna or someone like that. A book he draws in 1991 is a top seller and a book he draws in 2012 is a top seller... no matter how you slice it, that's pretty impressive and a rare accomplishment in any industry.

It's easy to dismiss commercial appeal and tell yourself that the mouth-breathing masses are unthinking zombies who buy what they're told to -- but in reality, that mentality is just snobby and a little delusional. I think Britney Spears is pure shit but she's clearly able to do something 99% of other professional musicians can't, she's got something they don't -- she started in the mid to late 90s and is still a top seller, proving herself over a decade -- so I wouldn't think my ability to judge music, performance ability and media saavy is so insightful that I can deem her "untalented". She got a talent, it's just that it doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

I'm not saying that anyone's commercial appeal or longevity is a reason for you to like them -- art is like music; you are exposed to it and your brain instantly makes the decision for you as to whether you like it or not. But I am saying those things are rare accomplishments.

Jim Lee's art definitely takes over anything he works on and becomes the "star of the show". He falls into a category of artists along with guys like Joe Madureira and Todd McFarlane -- the story being told is a side consideration. The real reason to get their books is if you enjoy their art styles and want to just look at cool drawings.

<threaddrift> I dunno if Bieber's a flash in the pan either - he's been around for a few years now, I just saw him accompany Floyd Mayweather to the ring on his latest PPV and he was on the news this morning for something or other. I think he's going to be around a long time. </threaddrift>

I don't think the masses are unthinking zombies. People buy what they like. Nerds like me who overthink things are the guys with the problem, not the people who just want some entertainment. I mean, it is just freakin' comics, right?

I don't like his figure work either. They look like action figures to me (see example on the last page).

Those two guys are deal-breakers for me. Anything they draw, I'm not buying.

Joe Mad and Jim Lee are on my personal "must buy" list. I'm lukewarm to McFarlane.

My use of Lee there is truthfully probably outdated and irrelevant.

I was thinking along the lines of his early pro work, where he was heavily drawing from Byrnes style, and while his work was getting better, it took awhile for him to really become his own artist.

When you look at Lee's entire pro-work, I think that's what makes me think 'Byrne if he gave a shit'. I may be wrong on it, sure. But it's not like Byrne is really going to put in long hours for just one page.

It's just that Byrne's sacrifice of quality for speed is outdated in the current market.

Absolutely agree on Lee and Madureira.

McFarlane isn't really even lukewarm to me though. I wouldn't buy a comic just because of his art.

The other two? Absolutely.

Joe Mad and Humberto Ramos are two artists who go on my "drop that shit right now" list. Both were tolerable early in their careers, but their cartoony style isn't suited for superhero comics at all.

Humberto is in my top 12. His first dozen or so issues of Spidey with Dan Slott recently are spectacular.

He seems very talented but I don't care for his style. I bought the Spider-Island collection, but I don't think I'll seek out more artwork by the guy.

Fixed.

I know a lot of people were unhappy with the cover choices for the Amazing Spider-Man omnibus volume two.

There's a classic Romita cover, or a Ramos cover.

Naturally the Romita one is apparently hard to get already, and in high demand.

It just seems like such a bad decision to choose Ramos for the alternate cover.

I've always got the omniboo with an actual issue cover art, but at least the other choice made some sense, usually by Alex Ross.

Ramos for silver-age Romita work? Weird

I'm not sure which one I have. It looks like the classic Romita cover with modern coloring. Is that that Romita cover? Or did Ramos do an "homage" cover.

I would have preferred the cover have the original style of flat coloring.

But it's a dust jacket anyway -- I wish they would to the awesome integrated covers that Fantagraphics does, or even the DC Omnibus (Black tie editions).