First it was all the Obama covers but now its just getting worse. The latest Spiderman book, Wolverine makes a Bush joke and he and Spiderman do the fist bump. This is just so annoying and stupid to me. I don't care what political party you belong to, keep this shit out of the big two superheros. They are NOT your toy things and its poor business in the long term. I feel the same way about sitcoms doing it. You are telling potentially 30-40% of your audience, f**k you, we don't give sh!t about your opinion.

And before you all start freaking out, I wouldn't like it even if they did it about anti-Clinton or anti-Obama. Personally, I have a healthy distrust of ALL politicians and could care less about any of them, including the latest messiah. I think they are all power hungry scum who only care about increasing their own power, which is why they vote down term limits every time (a joke by the way, politicians voting to limit their own terms). But if you feel otherwise that's fine. Just keep it out of these books.

Now if Jeff Smith wants to do it in Bone or Larsen in Savage Dragon, that's fine. It might be stupid but it's their properties and if they hate their Republican fan base that's their business. Do what you want. But not with the big two.

These comics are supposed to be an escape from the real world. It is so arrogant and smug to do this, thinking everyone agrees with you. And that's what it is. They believe everyone thinks like them. They don't realize they don't have an original thought in their head and they just follow the latest trends and can't think for themselves.

And if you must say something, how about showing some original thought for once. How about a Democrat who doesn't believe in everything their party believes, like maybe Global warming is not man made or a Republican who feels gays should marry and leave abortion alone. SOME INDEPENDENT thinking.

But that's only if you must inject this stuff into these books and if I was EIC I would say no! Then again, when mature men were running these companies, this stuff did not happen because they respected their audiences feelings about the characters. Sure there were subtle stuff like Green Arrow etc. but it was not so blatant.

Funny thing is, the one time recently where a big two book had political stuff in it, but was actually not a cliche, was from one of my least favorite writers ever, Winick. I can't remember which book it was but it was a DC comic where it appeared the heroes were endorsing political candidates and Clark Kent made a beautiful speech at the end about how his vote was a private matter and Superman should not be seen to be representing only certain people. I don't know Winick at all, but that was a very intelligent response he wrote.

OK, I'm done venting.

First of all, I would really rather we not move this to the WANderground because it should be more of a comic industry discussion than a political one. But if it becomes personal then we'll move it.

To answer your question, I think it goes a lot deeper than politics. In rotten books (which is a majority of the Big Two's output nowadays), the characters act just like the overgrown geekz who write them, with the same cliched tastes, same speech patterns, same snarky tone, same contempt for their readers and for themselves.

I'd say it doesn't matter ... those types of books appeal to a very inbred audience ... no one really notices except when they manufacture a fake collectible for the mainstream, like the Obama Spider-Man issue. The quality books tend to be of the off-the-beaten-track variety for the most part, and the BIG characters are known by the public for their movies and cartoons, not for what's happening in the comics.

So who cares what those idiots take shots at? Hell, in a month's time your post will be read by ten times the readership of any of QuesaDio's books anyway.

What I can't understand is why the PTB at Marvel would allow ANYTHING that would offend and alienate readers.

Their goal is to make money, right?

Look at it this way - in eight years if you read the issue, then they're talking about Obama.

There. Everyone is happy.

That's my point. I'm not trying to offend anyone or belittle anyone's point of view. I just don't know why a superhero comic book company would offend 30-40% of their audience. That's all. I don't care whose side the political opinion falls on its just stupid.

When I see sitcoms make a one line dig at a political party, I'm amazed at the their stupidity and short-sighted thinking. Is it that important, a throwaway line, to risk turning off a big part of your audience? And then they complain about movie and tv audiences dwindling. The arrogance is unreal to me.

Now if its a comedy that makes fun of BOTH parties, that's cool with me.

I doubt I will be reading most of these books 8 years from now but clever point.

I thought the joke was clumsy and heavy-handed, but I also don't want to see writers being told they can't include politics, even as jokes, in the stuff they're writing. ANY humor could offend some portion of the audience.

Besides... The Republican writers all did the same thing back when Bush got elected, right?

The writers can share whatever political opinion they want in a story, but to give an established Marvel character the writer's politics is unwise if keeping fans is important.

Sarah Palin's appearance brought ratings for SNL that they had not experienced since 1994. Could it be that many views had tuned out of SNL because of their anti-conservative humor and returned to see Palin? I believe so.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... _nigh.html

[lilred]"Palin's brief, upbeat and mostly silent visit drew an audience that could top 14 million, the biggest for NBC's late-night satire show since Olympic skater Nancy Kerrigan hosted on March 12, 1994.
In overnight figures released Sunday from 56 Nielsen markets, Saturday's audience mushroomed 47% over the previous original "SNL" this fall, which drew about 9.7 million viewers.[/lilred]

I wasn't following that civil war stuff,but is Spiderman someone who could get along with a guy like Wolverine? They seem like the two least likely canidates for a "Fist-bump"

Would it be safe for anybody to attempt a fist-bump with Wolverine?

This made me laugh.

Sometimes you just have to laugh at yourself.

They've been friendly for a long time.

Since after spidey killed Wolverine's gf back in the day

Funny. And by the way, even if it was true, I would still be against it.


I don't think they should include politics in these stories period. Why shouldn't writers be under restrictions with these long time creations. Who the heck are they?

Remember, as much as you try to "adult" them up these are still superheroes running around in their underwear.

And to give the characters theyr're point of view is very short sighted.

I agree with Allen here to an extent - the point of satire is to criticise the people in power, and I wouldn't really have an argument with that - arguably, having comics criticise the powers that be is just as legitimate as any other branch of entertainment doing it...however, once there are new poepl in power, they should be the target of criticisms like this, not thise who left power. What is the point? It just looks mean spirited and smug.

On the one hand, I agree.

On the other, Stan's stories were political in a sense. Very anti-communist and pro-racial integration, at least many of them.

But this is not a recent thing right? I mean I remember Gruenwald having Cap fight Reagan who was turned into a snake man (subtle!) by the Viper and the Serpent Society in the 80s...Reagan lampooned in Dark Knight by MIller....Engleheart making Nixon the head of the Secret Empire, etc...this has been going on for ages no?

Since the 70s, it seems 95% of it is liberal artists attacking Republican/Conservative presidents politicians or causes.

I agree that this was a really lame joke but don't think it's a big deal. If it were me, would I avoid this kind of thing? Yes. But I can't say it set me off or anything. I'd forgotten about it until now.

I'm more offended at how lame it is.

Still, it was a pretty good issue of Spidey with a great cliffhanger.

I think its like that in most pop culture, including tv and movies.



Gruenwald and Miller were dead wrong to do it (both, ironically, fanboys turned writers) Englehart at least kept it subtle somewhat.



Yeah but all comics were doing that (the anti-communist thing) and it didn't offend any party (therefore offend half your audience). And he was the creator too.