Linda just told me "Navallist" was a parody thread. I simply posted in that thread because I think it's more polite to bump an existing thread on a subject than start a duplicate one. My apologies.

Anyway, I'm about halfway through the first Hornblower book, Beat To Quarters (also known as The Happy Return). I'll give more thoughts on the book later tomorrow, but I was wondering what anybody else thinks of these series of books? (And did Forester invent the Napoleonic warfare adventure book or did he simply popularize the genre?) Also, how was Ioan Griffudd as Hornblower? Although I think his portrayal of Reed Richards as a shy easy-going genius in the Fox Fantastic Four movies was misguided, I don't think it was his fault and I can see him doing a better job as Hornblower, especially in the hands of a director and screenwriter who understand that character.

Of course, I also think a younger Ben Affleck could probably also have played Hornblower, but for a reason that is probably irrelevant to most screen adaptations.



Let me strike that last sentence. Although I think Affleck would have done better as Hornblower than most people would have given him credit, I think it's a shame that this book wasn't adapted to film back in the 30's and 40's. I'm sure that if I rent the Gregory Peck version I'll be impressed, but there is a style to the cinema in Golden Age of Hollywood that isn't carried on in the 50's. That doesn't mean there weren't great movies in the 50's, but they were different types of movies and I would have liked to have seen an adaptation of this book made around the same time they made Gone With The Wind.

One last thing. Although we've just seen an adaptation of Superman played by British actor Henry Cavill and the republic survived, I can't blame British fans who yearn to see Hornblower played by an English actor. I would not be surprised if Gruffudd did a great job.

Looked up the Gruffudd Hornblower series on Wikipedia. Apparently those films were all based on the stories of Hornblower as a midshipman and young captain and predate the events of Beat To Quarters/The Happy Return.

Yep. Read all those books.

And I bought the Gruffudd box set series on DVD. Pretty good. I originally watched them as they aired on A&D, but when they became available for like $20, I bought them, too.

Don't think he made captain yet in those - just commander, though he was captain of his own ship. a sloop, I think, his actual rank wasn't captain yet.

Just looked - they're still around - the complete 8 disc set, for like $20.21

I had hoped when Gruffudd was older, they might consider making more of them.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004G8N9VO/?tag=imwan-20

Recommended.

And the Gregory Peck movie, which Kid didn't include in his Peck movies was Captain Horatio Hornblower (1951), which takes place some time after the events portrayed in the boxed DVD set. It's one of my favorite older films and I always watch it when TCM airs it.

I also heard that Hornblower was part of the inspiration for Gene Roddenberry's Captain Kirk, and he was annoyed that William Shatner's personality took over the character. All those times when Kirk privately wondered out loud, "Am I doing the right thing?" he took directly from Hornblower.

Yeah, Hornblower was brave, intelligent, selfless, self sacrificing, and modest, and he represented the common man, rather than a member of an elite aristocracy in a system where one's birth, by and large, did more to determine one's rank rather than one's individual merit. He always put his King and country, his ship, and the men under his command first - his own life, fame, or fortune (economic benefit) was largely unimportant to him inasmuch as it didn't affect his command decisions.

Kirk was like that, for the most part, though he was far less modest - his pride in his abilities perhaps being one of his greater weaknesses.

Hornblower was also married, and a product of a different time when premarital or extramarital relations were not looked upon too favorably. I do believe when behind enemy lines for years, perhaps, he may have had a dalliance or two, perhaps under the impression he would never reach home again alive, but he wasn't much like Kirk there, the unattached starship captain hooking up with far greater frequency. Though, honestly, I feel the good starship captain was actually looking for a workable long-term relationship than simple sexual gratification or sexual conquest, so he was in love, or trying to find it, most every time he engaged in that sort of activity - with an exception or two when he did it for the good of a mission objective or the safety of his crew.

I thought this was a reference to Archer. Carry on.

Nope. But Haratio Cornblower is a bad name for a fuzzy naval drink.

Almost finished with Beat To Quarters. Even as allies, the Spaniards do not come off very well in this book.

You have known too many Spaniards.

¿Qué?

I meant the Spaniards in the book. After Hornblower goes the trouble of sinking a Spanish warship that he captured and gave to rebels---unaware that the Spanish and British governments had just become allies during his secret voyage in Nicaragua---the Viceroy in Panama denies Hornblower permission to take his damaged ship into their ports, or ANY port run by the Spanish in Latin America. I have to give a great deal of credit to the fictional Hornblower for not cursing the man out.

Anyway, I finished Beat To Quarters today and now am starting Ship of the Line.

I have never read the Hornblower series, but I have read the Aubrey/Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian. I highly recommend that series.

That event is the main focus of the first half of the 1951 movie, Captain Horatio Hornblower. He captures a stronger Spanish ship of the line, the Natividad, which had twice the guns and men as his own ship, the Lydia, and he does this by cunning and stealth and gives her to the rebels since the secret plan was the support the rebels so the Spanish would have to take away ships from England to protect Spanish colonies in Central America. But Napoleon invaded Spain in the interum and put his brother-in-law on the Spanish throne, so the deposed Spanish government allied with England.

When Hornblower learned of the switch in sides, he then had to recapture or destroy the Natividad from the rebels but couldn't do so by stealth as the rebels had also learned of the change in sides, so he had to fight and win by superior seamanship, which he did - he destroyed her. Very exciting battle. The Spanish captain (the one who lost to cunning) was played by Christopher Lee - a fact I had been unaware of for decades. Lee? Really? Huh, it is.

I don't recall Hornblower being denied access to Spanish ports for this - not his bloody fault, after all - but I do recall they made the repairs on their own by finding safe harbor at some small island and conducting most of the repairs there using locally harvested materials (but this is not shown in the 1951 movie).

By the way, there was a "needle scratch" moment when I read the blurb about C.S Forester's biography on the back of the book. I had read earlier that Forester had written Beat To Quarters while taking a ship home to England from California. (Which is part of the reason why the book is set mostly in Central America and Panama---Forester was going through the Panama Canal.) The blurb on the book gave more details and said that Forester was in Hollywood writing the screenplay for a pirate movie when a rival studio released the Errol Flynn movie Captain Blood, which was based on the same real-life events that Forester was trying to put into HIS screenplay. He hopped on a freighter (not a passenger liner) bound to England rather than look for another movie project, but also to avoid a paternity suit....WHAT?!?!?

PATERNITY SUIT??? Does this mean there's somebody around the age of my parents in Los Angeles who is the bastard child of C.S. Forester? Does anybody else know anything about this?

Looks like the Hornblower/Lady Barbara romance may have been grounded more in real life than simply a retelling of the Nelson/Lady Hamilton affair.

I'll just say, FYI, I know he also wrote The African Queen, so there's that.

He moved back to the United States just after World War II broke out and lived most of the rest of his life in Berkeley, so either it wasn't his kid or the paternity suit went away.

It's been awhile since I saw the Humphrey Bogart movie, but The African Queen was written before any of the Hornblower books.

I really liked the Hornblower books when I was younger and would like to read them again, though I think many of them may have gotten lost from my collection if so it would be nice to pick them up again. I liked the movies, though they didn't fit my picture of him exactly they were good and I did enjoy them. I had thought it was cool when he was cast in the Fantastic Four movies as I know him from Hornblower already ( I did think he was a bit young but I at least thought he was a good actor) of course I was disappointed when I actually saw them.

One little thing I thought was kind of neat when I was looking up what else the actors from Life on Mars were in, was that Phillip Glinnister (Gene Hunt) was in a couple of the Hornblower movies and I had noticed that character but as he was a fair bit older in Life on Mars, I hadn't recognized him.

Ioan Gruffudd had a bit part in Titanic. Fifth officer. "Over Here" he screamed to his men on the rowboat, ordering them to pull toward survivors. 1997, shortly before Hornblower.

Oh cool. Haven't seen that movie and probably never will at this point but I think it's interresting to know he had a part in such a big movie.

If Brown ever publishes a new edition of these books (including a Kindle version for the first three books, please!), they really need to add an appendix explaining the nautical terms that Forester keeps throwing out. I'm towards the end of Ship of the Line, where Hornblower is towing the admiral's ship in a fierce storm off the Spanish coast. It's dangerous and exciting, but I'm only having the dimmest idea of what's going on because I don't know what Hornblower means when he orders "Brace the mizzen tops!"

This is where I actually got most of my maritime information before reading these books:

Here's a good source. It's alphabetical. But nothing is complete. They don't even have "brace" there, and that's just a rope on a sail used to turn it at various angles (I think). Anyway . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_ ... ical_terms

Mizzenmast (or Mizzen)
The third mast, or mast aft of the mainmast, on a ship.

No one will ever be able to pornalize Horatio Hornblower.