I want to do a poll, but I don't want to leave out an otherwise obvious choice just because I haven't seen it, so I am collecting nominations here. Superhero second movies that outdo the first:

Superman II (both the original and the Donner cut are included)
The Incredible Hulk (a stretch since the first movie is erased by the second, but what an improvement).
The Dark Knight
X-Men 2 (from what I am reading)
Spider-Man 2 (although I personally disagree)

Any more?

If the Incredible Hulk counts then the Punisher with Thomas Jane. It was better than the Dolph Jundgren one. X-Men 3 was pretty good, as well. It, at the very least, had more action than the first one.

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer is a much better film than the first one. It still has its flaws, but the high points make it better.

In no universe is Superman 2 an improvement over the first movie. Whichever cut you offer up, it just ain't so.

And Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer is crap on a shingle.

I have spoken. Now I am off to spread good cheer to others more deserving of it than any of you.

I don't feel that either FF movie deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as any of the Spidey or X-Men films. I liked the Spidey ones, and thought that the second was an improvement on the first, but X-Men 2 was, for me, the ultimate superhero movie. I just loved it, and I'm really not even an X-Men fan. To me the X-Men are the original sixties guys, hanging out with beatniks in coffee houses, and fighting guys like the Blob and the Vanisher. But I loved X-Men 2.

I also agree that Superman 2 isn't as good as the first Supes movie, which was just brilliant.

The only one I felt improved on the original was Superman II.

I would say Dark Knight. Batman Begins was an okay movie, but DK was in another league.

Most sequels tend to improve by being a refinement of the original, such as Hellboy 2, which managed to shed most of what didn't work with the first. Punisher: War Zone is another notable improvement.

As a kid I liked Superman II better, cause the whole "super villains in black" was more exciting and comic-booky to me than the first one.

I've never actually watched both Superman films back to back since becoming the discerning, intelligent critic that I am today. I've sort of taken it on faith that, indeed, to the discerning film-goer, the first Superman is better than the second.

As to the question at hand, I don't think any of the recent batch of superhero sequels have been better than the Part Ones. Sure, in some cases the original movies were not very good to begin with (like FF), but in almost all cases they were more solidly structured, carefully paced and self-contained stories. The sequels have invariably been less focused, storywise, than the films they followed up on.

I think part of the reason II is better is that unlike the original (which is great), it doesn't have to do the origin and gets straightaway to the action. Also, while I love Gene Hackman's Luthor, he just sets a bunch of rockets into the sky and makes Superman go after them, whereas the Phantom Zone villains take Superman on directly in a physical confrontation.

I think it would have been interesting if they'd been able to finish both films at once and taken the "Supes turns back the earth" scene out of I and had it as the ending to II. And it would have been a great tease in 1978 at the end of the first movie to see the Phantom Zone villains released into space and heading towards earth with Zod proclaiming "Free!!" as they descended towards earth, with the next credit reading "Coming Next Year: Superman II."

Matters of opinion should never be stated as matters of fact.

Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

Unless, apparently, it's about how Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer is crap on a shingle. That seems to be a matter of fact then.

It may not, but the purpose of the poll I will eventually put up is not how superior the film is as a film but how superior the sequel is to the original. For instance, for me the gap between Superman II and Superman the movie is smaller than the gap between the Dark Knight and Batman Begins and (assuming I am going to let the Incredible Hulk count) the gap between the Incredible Hulk and the Hulk is even wider still, although I rank both BB and DK ahead of either one as individual movies.

Like that.

Since there were no Star Wars sequels, you're just using made up words.

Oh, there were Star Wars sequels alright.

They (and by "they", I mean all after Empire) just sucked dead bison cock. Fact.

Since there were no sequels to Star Wars, this post does not exist, nor does my reply thereto.

I liked FF2. The best part of FF1 was the Jack Kirby documentary on the DVD supplemental disc. The rest of it wasn't so hot. 2, though, recaptured some of the good stuff from the comics I felt. The fact that it retold my favorite FF tale of all time in it may have affected my opinion, of course.

This thread is anvilicious.

FACT

'Deals', Jay, not "speaks".

Admitting to liking Robin Hood and assuring Sith is properly quoted. WHEN WILL ROB RETURN, WHEN?????????