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Hammett or Chandler?
Dashiell Hammett 57%  57%  [ 4 ]
Raymond Chandler 42%  42%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 7
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 Post subject: Dashiell Hammett VS Raymond Chandler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:22 am 
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 Post subject: Dashiell Hammett VS Raymond Chandler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:25 am 
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Hammett. I haven't read a lot of his work, or any of Chandler's. But I think Hammett heavily influenced modern fiction, and practically founded the crime genre. Red Harvest was 1924.

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 Post subject: Dashiell Hammett VS Raymond Chandler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:36 am 
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As influential as Hammett was (and he was certainly a huge influence on Chandler) I think Chandler is the better writer. Where Hammett seemed to write basic tough guys, Chandler wrote protagonists that were a bit more complex. His language was just amazing, too.

You should check out one of his collections, Jay.

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 Post subject: Dashiell Hammett VS Raymond Chandler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:47 am 
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Monk wrote:
As influential as Hammett was (and he was certainly a huge influence on Chandler) I think Chandler is the better writer. Where Hammett seemed to write basic tough guys, Chandler wrote protagonists that were a bit more complex. His language was just amazing, too.

You should check out one of his collections, Jay.


I certainly will. But I totally disagree about Hammett's protagonists. Just the opposite, I think he invented the complex protagonist. The enigma. The guy who is supposed to be the good guy, and really isn't all that good. But you sense truth in way the character lives his life.

For the longest time, I used this line as my signature at the JBF and here: "He adjusted himself to beams falling, and then no more of them fell, and he adjusted himself to them not falling."

It came from a passage in chapter 6 of The Maltese Falcon, which I've set forth at length below. It's a fascinating, riveting, truly revealing passage about Sam Spade. I've bolded the parts about the beams, if you can just skim to it, but I recommend the whole passage (and by the way, the whole passage has absolutely nothing to do with the plot of the Maltese Falcon. The guy he's describing never comes up in the book before or after this passage:

Quote:
Spade sat down in the armchair beside the table and without any preliminary, without any introductory remark of any sort, began to tell the girl about a thing that had happened some years before in the Northwest. He talked in a steady matter-of-fact voice that was devoid of emphasis or pauses, though now and then he repeated a sentence slightly rearranged, as if it were important that each detail be related exactly as it had happened.

At the beginning Brigid O’Shaughnessy listened with only partial attentiveness, obviously more surprised by his telling the story than interested in it, her curiosity more engaged with his purpose in telling the story than with the story he told; but presently, as the story went on, it caught her more and more fully and she became still and receptive.

A man named Flitcraft had left his real estate office, in Tacoma, to go to luncheon one day and never returned. He did not keep an engagement to play golf after four that afternoon, though he had taken the initiative in making the engagement less than half an hour before he went out to luncheon. His wife and children never saw him again. His wife and he were supposed to be on the best of terms. He had two children, boys, one five and the other three. He owned his house in a Tacoma suburb, and the rest of the appurtenances of successful American living.

Flitcraft had inherited seventy thousand dollars from his father, and, with his success in real estate, was worth something in the neighborhood of two hundred thousand dollars at the time he vanished. His affairs were in order, though there were enough loose ends to indicate he indicate that he had not been setting them in order preparatory to vanishing. A deal that would have brought him an attractive profit, for instance, was to have been concluded the day after the one on which he disappeared. There was nothing to suggest that he had more than fifty or sixty dollars in his immediate possession at the time of his going. His habits for months past could be accounted for too thoroughly to justify and suspicion of secret vices or even of another woman in his life, though either was barely possible.

“He went like that,” Spade said, “like a fist when you open your hand.”



“Well, that was in 1922. In 1927 I was with one of the big detective agencies in Seattle. Mrs. Flitcraft came in and said someone had seen a man in Spokane who looked a lot like her husband. I went over there. It was Flitcraft, all right. He had been living in Spokane for a couple of years as Charles—that was his first name—Pierce. He had an automobile-business that was netting him twenty or twenty-five thousand a year, a wife, a baby son, owned his home in a Spokane suburb, and usually got away to play golf after four in the afternoon during the season.”

Spade had not been told very definitely what to do when he found Flitcraft. They talked in Spade’s room at the Davenport. Flitcraft had no feeling of guilt. He had left his first family well provided for, and what he had done seemed to him perfectly reasonable. The only thing that bothered him was a doubt that he could make that reasonableness clear to Spade. He had never told anyone his story before, and thus had not had to attempt to make its reasonableness explicit. He tried now.

“I got it all right,” Spade told Brigid O’Shaughnessy, “but Miss Flitcraft never did. She thought it was silly. Maybe it was. Anyway, it came out all right. She didn’t want any scandal, and, after the trick he had played on her—the way she looked at it—she didn’t want him. So they were divorced on the quiet and everything was swell all around.

Here’s what had happened to him. Going to lunch he passed an office-building that was being put up—just the skeleton. A beam or something fell eight or ten stories down and smacked the sidewalk alongside him. It brushed pretty close to him, but didn’t touch him, though a piece of the sidewalk was chipped off and flew up and hit his cheek. It only took a piece of skin off, but he still had the scar when I saw him. He rubbed it with his finger—well, affectionately—when he told me about it. He was scared stiff of course, he said, but he was more shocked than really frightened. He felt like someone had taken the lid off life and let him look at the works.”

Flitcraft had been a good citizen and a good husband and father, not by any outer compulsion, but simply because he was a man who was most comfortable in step with his surroundings. He had been raised that way. The people he knew were like that. The life he knew was a clean orderly sane responsible affair. Now a falling beam had shown him that life was fundamentally none of those things. He, the good citizen-husband-father, could be wiped out between office and restaurant by the accident of a falling beam. He knew then that men died at haphazard like that, and lived only while blind chance spared them.

It was not primarily, the injustice of it that disturbed him: he accepted that after the first shock. What disturbed him was the discovery that in sensibly ordering his affairs he had got out of step, and not into step, with life. He said he knew before he had gone twenty feet from the fallen beam that he would never know peace again until he had adjusted himself to this new glimpse of life. By the time he had eaten his luncheon he had found his means of adjustment. Life could be ended for him at random by a falling beam: he would change his life at random by simply going away. He loved his family, he said, as much as he supposed was usual, but he knew he was leaving them adequately provided for, and his love for them was not of the sort that would make absence painful.

“He went to Seattle that afternoon,” Spade said, “and from there by boat to San Francisco. For a couple of years he wandered around and then drifted back to the Northwest, and settled in Spokane and got married. His second wife didn’t look like the first, but they were more alike than they were different. You know, the kind of women that play fair games of golf and bridge and like new salad-recipes. He wasn’t sorry for what he had done. It seemed to be reasonable enough to him. I don’t think he even knew he had settled back naturally into the same groove he had jumped out of in Tacoma. But that’s the part of it I always liked. He adjusted himself to beams falling, and then no more of them fell, and he adjusted himself to them not falling.”

“How perfectly fascinating,” Brigid O’Shaughnessy said.

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 Post subject: Dashiell Hammett VS Raymond Chandler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 am 
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 Post subject: Dashiell Hammett VS Raymond Chandler
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:35 pm 
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As dull and repetitive as they are

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We wouldn't have had the wonderful Thin Man series without Hammett.


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 Post subject: Dashiell Hammett VS Raymond Chandler
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:23 pm 
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Truthfully, I haven't read any prose by either. I've seen movies made from their work, though. Chandler wrote some original screenplays, and I believe that Hammet did as welll.

Based on their Hollywood work and what I do know about the two, I vote for Chandler. Chandler has been imitated countless times, and I think that most people don't realize how influential he was. Among other things, Chandler invented the idea of the detective who narrates his own stories. Just think how many times you've seen THAT device. BLADE RUNNER, for example (the original theatrical cut, I mean) is more Chandler than Hammet.

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