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If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films, do you need the non-canonical?
You don't need either. 25%  25%  [ 4 ]
Just get Casino Royale. 18%  18%  [ 3 ]
Hey, Never Say Never Again still has Connery in it, get just that one! 25%  25%  [ 4 ]
You definintely need both, cheapass. 25%  25%  [ 4 ]
Bond is for pansies. 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 16
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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:43 pm 
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King of Goth

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If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films, should you also own either the David Niven Casino Royale or the non-canonical Connery Never Say Never Again?

Or both?

I'm curious. I own all of 'em, and recently came across both of these movies in a sale bin. The sale wasn't quite good enough for an impulse purchase, but it did get me thinking about them.

Now, I've never seen either of them all the way through.

What does IMWAN assembled recommend?

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:58 pm 
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I own neither, and I do have the Ultimate Bond box set. No plans to buy either of them.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:59 pm 
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Neither.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:06 pm 
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I own the "canonical" Bond films except for the Roger Moore's, of which I only have 2.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:16 pm 
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If I don't consider Roger Moore part of my personal canon, am I a fake fan?


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:30 pm 
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This is a good thread. I have owned Never Say Never Again, and in fact it was one of the first Bond movies that I saw, official or not. However, I don't feel you need to own them to have a full set. And I'm a completist.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:39 pm 
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Steve wrote:
If I don't consider Roger Moore part of my personal canon, am I a fake fan?

Yes.

Here's the thing, Ian. The '60's Casino Royale is a not-very-good comedy that bears absolutely no resemblance to anything Bond. Yeah, the thought of Niven playing Bond sounds cool, but then along comes Woody Allen claiming that HE'S James Bond. "Hilarity" ensues. This movie was made basically, because EON Productions did not own the rights to the title.

Never Say Never Again is a bad remake of Thunderball, with an obviously too-old-for-the-part Connery wearing what has got to be the worst hairpiece in the history of cinema. This movie was made because of a lawsuit. According to imdb:

Quote:
This movie was basically made because of remake rights owned by Kevin McClory relating to Thunderball (1965). According to the 20-26/10/1997 edition of the trade paper Variety, characters and situations which McClory claimed he owned included: SPECTRE and its octopus signia; characters Ernst Stavro Blofeld, Domino Smith, Fatima Blush and Fiona Volpe; James Bond up against the hijack of an A-bomb; James Bond fighting Sicilian Mafia; the Shrublands Health Clinic; Bahamas location; a yacht with a hidden hydrofoil and the rocket-firing motorbike. EON Productions owned the James Bond theme and logo plus a considerable number of characters and situations. Elements that were shared by both parties included James Bond, casino gambling, M, Q, Miss Moneypenny, Felix Leiter and the Aston Martin DB5. Interestingly of the latter, this vehicle did not appear in this movie whereas it did in Thunderball (1965). Further, despite the claims, the Bahamas was still a location in Casino Royale (2006).

Kevin McClory, Ian Fleming and Jack Whittingham collaborated on an original story and screenplay for what would have been the very first 007 film, entitled "James Bond, Secret Agent". McClory reportedly wanted Richard Burton to play James Bond. For whatever reasons, the movie was never made. Fleming had previously cannibalized plots prepared for two other abandoned Bond spin-off projects, a newspaper comic strip and a television series, for 007 novels, and similarly turned this one into his novel "Thunderball". However, in this case his right to do so was not so clear. When Harry Saltzman bought the film rights to the Bond novels from Fleming and went into partnership with Albert R. Broccoli, McClory initiated legal action. Although Thunderball (1965) was a fairly faithful adaptation of the published novel, McClory's suit resulted in only the earlier screenplay being credited as source material. McClory's producer credit on that movie is possibly just another term of the settlement. The case was settled out of court.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:42 pm 
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And now McClory's dead, so we won't see another one, although there were talks of him making one about 7 or 8 years ago with Timothy Dalton. I think it was called Warhead 2000 or something similar.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:47 pm 
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The Casino Royale DVD is well worth the price. Besides some classic 60's scenes that led to the birth of Austin Powers, you get an all star cast, a top notch Bacharach soundtrack and the original Casino Royale telecast starring Barry Nelson as Bond and Peter Lorre as Le Chiffre.

In the 70's and 80's the Casino Royale soundtrack LP was a much sought after collectable. I often play the DVD as background music while working and keep the movie on my iPod to play in the car.

There are a few "real" Bond movies that I would pass on before passing up Casino Royale.

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:54 pm 
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Fraxon! wrote:

Never Say Never Again is a bad remake of Thunderball, with an obviously too-old-for-the-part Connery wearing what has got to be the worst hairpiece in the history of cinema. This movie was made because of a lawsuit.


They should have just called it Thunderball II: The Inferior version. It was extremely craptacular even if Connery was playing Bond....... :ohyes:

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:55 pm 
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Casino Royale is awesome if only for the soundtrack.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:56 pm 
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Paulie Walnuts wrote:
And now McClory's dead, so we won't see another one, although there were talks of him making one about 7 or 8 years ago with Timothy Dalton. I think it was called Warhead 2000 or something similar.


Dalton refused, and then McClory was trying to get Liam Neeson to take the role. As disinterested as I was in yet another remake of "Thunderball," the idea of Liam Neeson as James Bond was intriguing.

I liked "Never Say Never Again" for several reasons; on its own, it's a pretty good film. It does, however, suffer in comparison to "Thunderball," which is just a better film.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:01 pm 
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Behold

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Kevin wrote:
I liked "Never Say Never Again" for several reasons; on its own, it's a pretty good film. It does, however, suffer in comparison to "Thunderball," which is just a better film.

Agreed. Thunderball is one of the best, IMO. I would even say that Never Say Never Again is inferior to the EON Bond movie it was released against: Octopussy. (Well, not technically released against it. It was supposed to be but NSNA got delayed and they weren't competitors for movie goers' money. They did get released in the same year, however.)


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:04 pm 
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The Kilted Wonder.

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At the time I saw NSNA, I liked it more because I was sick of Roger Moore, but it's still not as it's original source material.

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Good Stuff, Maynard!

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Kim Basinger was hot in NSNA.

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Indeed she was.


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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:17 am 
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King of Goth

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Victoria does really like the soundtrack to Casino Royale...

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:20 am 
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How does

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So was Barbara Carerra, though she's NOT a great actress.

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:25 am 
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Kevin wrote:
I liked "Never Say Never Again" for several reasons; on its own, it's a pretty good film. It does, however, suffer in comparison to "Thunderball," which is just a better film.


THUNDERBALL is a better film. NSNA has Barbara Carrera, though. Buy it for her!

Seriously, I liked NSNA, and I think that it's at least worth having. I enjoyed it more than at least half of the Moore films, anyway. I also think that it's arguably better than at least one of the earlier Connery films (and yes, I'm thinking of YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE - not that that film doesn't have its moments, as well.). In any case, I think that it's far from the worst Bond film ever made (That, to me, is a tie between MOONRAKER and VIEW TO A KILL. Take your pick.).

The 1960s CASINO ROYALE is a love-it-or-hate-it kind of movie. It basically throws gags against the wall like plates of spaghetti and hopes that some of them stick. Of course, I'm one of those who loved it. It has an anarchic quality that I just found infectious. It's definitely of it's time, but that again, is something that you'll either love or hate depending on your mindset.

I don't think that the 1960s CASINO ROYALE is a must-have, though. Even many Bond completists could probably feel comfortable skipping it. NSNA, on the other hand, is something that you may well want if you're a fan.

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:57 pm 
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Uncle Twitchy wrote:
Casino Royale is awesome if only for the soundtrack.


IAWTP, if you delete the "if".

Though there is something awe-inspiring about the awfulness of the rest of it.

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:02 pm 
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When "Never Say Never Again" came out I remember wondering how somebody else got the rights to make a Bond movie. I only recently ran across an article about the "Thunderball" story. Apparently Fleming was pretty arrogant about it, and only settled out of court at the last minute when it appeared he was going to lose. Fleming died shortly thereafter. McClory promptly got together with Eon Productions to make the movie, realizing that they would be the likeliest ones to turn it into a lucrative hit.

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 Post subject: If you own all the 'canonical' Bond films...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:19 pm 
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Thus far, the votes for don't get either/get NSNA/get CR/get both are in a four-way tie at 3 votes each...

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