Pre-Crisis Superman love

Allen Berrebbi · 07 Sep 2004

This thread is for your favorite pre-Crisis Superman stories.

One of my favorite stories is World's Finest 271 where Superman faces Atom man, who I always thought was a great villain for him. Like Kryptonite Man, but with superstrength etc. plus I love his look too. And yes my Batman does joke around with his pal Superman.

Simon · **Joined:** 26 Oct 2006 **Posts:** 59406

I'm a fan of the 'imaginary story' from DC Comics Presents* where Superman meets the Atomic Knights (sort of).

Supes is having recurring dreams about a post-apocalyptic world.

There was also a weird version of Hercules who was part of the team...

He joins them in a fight with a giant monster that has kryptonite breath, and he gets knocked out.

When he wakes up, Supes goes to visit a professor...

She had been given some memory-wiping serum that removed all knowledge of the experiment, but Supes uses 'Super Hypnotism' to give her the memories back. She confirms there had been an experiment that involved putting someone in suspended animation and that this is why Supes is having the dreams and so on...

They arrive in time to find that the person in suspended animation - Gardner Grayle - is going to begin a nuclear war because he's mentally linked to the world's computers and so on. Supes has to fight some giant (knight themed) robots when he and Dr. Herald try to get Grayle out of suspended animation.

Anyway, they avert the nuclear launch and wake up Gardner Grayle, and the crisis is averted.

I knew the story was simplistic and preachy even as a kid, but it was fun to read a story where Superman met the Atomic Knights...even if they were a virtual-reality version of the Atomic Knights. I like this comic a lot and it's a good example of what pre-crisis Supes was like, IMO. I enjoyed this stuff at the time for what it was, and I didn't expect it to be some sort of earth-shattering epic. I just wanted to read something enjoyable and these kinds of comics are still enjoyable to me.

* Superman and The Atomic Knights comic "Great Atomic War of 1986" - Vol 6 No. 57 - May 1983. Alex Saviuk pencilled it, F. McLaughlin inked it and Dan Mishkin and Gary Kohn wrote it. Not especially well, it has to be said, but they wrote it.

Allen Berrebbi · 07 Sep 2004

A great example of pre-Crisis and how anything could happen and it didn't need to mean more than a story. I wonder if this type of stuff was better for kids, even if older fans wanted a change.

Simon · **Joined:** 26 Oct 2006 **Posts:** 59406

I like the tone and even the somewhat clunky writing from that era much more than I like the modern day stuff...because I'm unhinged and so on.

Pooh Fresh · 28 Nov 2006

This stuff hits all my nostalgia feels

Dave Miller · **Joined:** 19 Aug 2006 **Posts:** 2995

I loved the stories reprinted in the Thirties to the Seventies/Eighties books, specifically the story where Jonathan Kent clawed his way out of the grave to help Superman face down Starshine, a filthy hippie who has been terrorizing Metropolis with his amazing power of superpanhandling, against which not even Superman is immune:

Allen Berrebbi · 07 Sep 2004

Simon wrote:

I like the tone and even the somewhat clunky writing from that era much more than I like the modern day stuff...because I'm unhinged and so on.

I'm unhinged too

Dave Miller wrote:

I loved the stories reprinted in the Thirties to the Seventies/Eighties books, specifically the story where Jonathan Kent clawed his way out of the grave to help Superman face down Starshine, a filthy hippie who has been terrorizing Metropolis with his amazing power of superpanhandling, against which not even Superman is immune:

A very touching story.

Simon · **Joined:** 26 Oct 2006 **Posts:** 59406

I like the fact that they don't really delve into any kind of subtext or backstory. This guy's a villain and he uses his powers to do wrong, and Superman uses his powers to do right...and that's all you need to know. We don't get some kind of sob story about why Starshine's a villlain and we're not told to feel sorry for him or whatever. There are no mitigating circumstances. He's a bad guy doing bad stuff so he's the enemy of Superman, who's the good guy.

Yeah, unhinged, old fashioned, whatever term is used...I'm still a Silver and Bronze Age fan at heart. Once things got grim and gritty I backed off...but now I don't even know what to make of things. My experience with The Immortal Hulk soured me on modern comics completely, it seems. Thankfully, there's a ton of old stuff to read and it's all being collected and republished on a regular basis so...it's there if I want to read it.

Allen Berrebbi · 07 Sep 2004

Simon wrote:

I like the fact that they don't really delve into any kind of subtext or backstory. This guy's a villain and he uses his powers to do wrong, and Superman uses his powers to do right...and that's all you need to know. We don't get some kind of sob story about why Starshine's a villlain and we're not told to feel sorry for him or whatever. There are no mitigating circumstances. He's a bad guy doing bad stuff so he's the enemy of Superman, who's the good guy.

Yeah, unhinged, old fashioned, whatever term is used...I'm still a Silver and Bronze Age fan at heart. Once things got grim and gritty I backed off...but now I don't even know what to make of things. My experience with The Immortal Hulk soured me on modern comics completely, it seems. Thankfully, there's a ton of old stuff to read and it's all being collected and republished on a regular basis so...it's there if I want to read it.

Agree with you 100%! Isn't the very point about comics, especially the traditional big two superheroes, to escape to this fantasy world? None of it is realistic and trying to make it so is dumb and yes, immature.

I swear of all the fantasy genres, comic fans are the worst. Always trying to ruin the fun.

Li'l Jay · 28 May 2006

I realize that this is a Superman thread, but both of you might enjoy the Mad Ghost line that Geoff Johns is writing. Started with Geiger, now it's Junkyard Joe. They are creating a shared world with an old-fashioned comics sensibility. And an appreciation for wounded veterans to boot. I've been really enjoying it. After Junkyard Joe arc wraps up, it's on to Redcoat, a hero who started in 1776.

Simon · **Joined:** 26 Oct 2006 **Posts:** 59406

Thanks for that info, Jay. I'll have to see where I can get them from over here, and where I live is six hours away form the nearest comic shop...but we live in the era of online purchay-sing so if the places I used to buy stuff from still exist I'm sure I can get them.

Jason Michael · 30 May 2012

You can get the collected editions from Amazon:

Geiger Vol. 1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1534320024/?tag=imwan-20

Quote:

The critically acclaimed team of writer GEOFF JOHNS and artist GARY FRANK unites with superstar colorist BRAD ANDERSON to bring their first creator-owned hero to Image Comics!

Set in the years after a nuclear war ravaged the planet, desperate outlaws battle for survival in a world of radioactive chaos. Out past the poisoned wasteland lives a man even the Nightcrawlers and Organ People fear. Some name him Joe Glow, others call him the Meltdown Man. But his name...is Geiger.

Releasing June 27:
Junkyard Joe Vol. 1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1534325891/?tag=imwan-20

Quote:

Throughout history, unlikely and strange heroes have risen and fallen, their identities and lives a secret. But for a Great Evil to be stopped, their stories must be told. They are The Unnamed fighting The Unknown War.

From the explosive pages of GEIGER comes JUNKYARD JOE! The world knows him from the comic strip by recently retired cartoonist Muddy Davis, but the truth stretches back to the Vietnam War. It was there that the tragedies of combat and visions of a strange robot solider that saved his life still haunt him. However, dreams become reality when Joe mysteriously shows up on Muddy’s doorstep, warning us of a new and impending war.

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Unfortunately imgur is still blocked on my work computer, but I do have this old post from a convo I had with Jason Czeskleba covering my favorite Silver Age Superman tales --

viewtopic.php?p=2912241#p2912241

Hanzo the Razor wrote:

Jason Czeskleba wrote:

That was fun. What would be on your list?

It's tough, since I'm not as well-read as you in Superman... I'm making my way through them, but I have literally hundreds of issues to still get through. For our purposes here I will include the stories I think are the most entertaining, rather than milestone issues included out of obligation. If I were compiling a real book, I'd make more of an effort to capture all the most distinctive elements of the Silver Age Superman's universe -- a Mxyzptlk story, a Jimmy transformation story, a Krypto story, etc.

As you've pointed out, I have a massive Edmond Hamilton bias -- not intentional, I never knew who wrote these stories, but I am just going with the ones I truly like the most. I also have more Imaginary Stories in here than I should, but again, just going with what I enjoyed most.

All that said, there's some issues you included that I'd consider "musts" that I'd include --

The Story of Superman's Life by Otto Binder (Superman 146)
The Last Days of Superman by Edmond Hamilton (Superman 156)
The Showdown Between Luthor and Superman by Edmond Hamilton (Superman 164)
The Team of Luthor and Brainiac by Edmond Hamilton (Superman 167)
Superman in Kandor by Jerry Siegel (Superman 158)
Superman Under the Red Sun by Edmond Hamilton (Action 300)
The Death of Superman by Jerry Siegel (Superman 149)
Superman's Return to Krypton by Jerry Siegel (Superman 141)
The Amazing Story of Superman-Red and Superman-Blue! (Superman 162) by Leo Dorfman

And then mine --

The Superman Of 2465! Saga by Edmond Hamilton (since they didn't take up entire issues, I will cheat and list Superman #181 and Action #338 and #339 as one story): In the year 2965, Klar Ken T5477 takes over the role of Superman from his father, a role passed from father to son since the original Superman 1,000 years before. Then in Action 338 and 339, Superman tracks Muto to sector Z-44, where the villain springs a series of traps on the hero, finally luring him into saving a trio of android children in the path of a wave of paralyzing toxic seawater.

The Danger of the Deadly Duo! by Jim Shooter (World's Finest #166): When Muto teams with the Joker of 2967 to battle Superman, the last descendant of Batman takes up the cape and cowl to help Superman and get revenge against the Joker, who's father killed his father.

The Kryptonite Killer by Edmond Hamilton (Action Comics #294): Luthor escapes from his imprisonment on the planet Roxar with the help of three enhanced androids, then goes on an interplanetary crime spree.

The Legion of Super-Traitors by Jerry Siegel (Adventure Comics #293): When the Brain-Globes of Rambat take over the minds of the Legion of Super-Heroes, there's only one force on Earth that can rescue Superboy -- The Legion of Super-Pets!

The Fury of the Kryptonian-Killer! by Jim Shooter (Superman #195): A mysterious stranger is destroying Superman and Supergirl's lives and legacy, piece by piece!

The Three Generations of Superman! by Edmond Hamilton (Superman #327): An imaginary story in which Superman I and Kal-El II discover a plot to invade the Earth. But can an aging hero and his super-young grandson save the day?

The Saga of Superman vs Batman by Edmond Hamilton (World's Finest #153): An imaginary story in which young Bruce Wayne is tricked by Luthor into thinking that Superboy killed his father, and so vows to become Batman to bring him to justice.

The Legion of Super-Villains! by Jerry Siegel (Superman #147): Luthor contacts and teams up with Legion of Super-Villains from 30th Century; adult Legion of Super-Heroes comes to 20th Century to help Superman.

The Fantastic Story of Superman's Sons! by Edmond Hamilton (Superman #166): A very poignant imaginary story where Superman has two sons, one with powers and one without.

The Death of Ferro-Lad! by Jim Shooter (Adventure Comics #352-353): As a last resort, the Legion decides to enlist the villainous Fatal Five to defend Earth from the Sun-Eater. When Superboy attempts a final suicide mission to destroy the Sun-Eater, Ferro Lad knocks him out and sacrifices his life to deliver the bomb which destroys the Sun-Eater.

The Sons of Superman and Batman by Edmond Hamilton (World's Finest #154): An imaginary story where Superman and Batman have trouble-making sons who hang out together.

The Adult Legion / The War of the Legions! by Jim Shooter (Adventure Comics #354-355): Superman is summoned to help the adult Legion investigate acts of sabotage; the Legion is lured into separate traps by the Legion of Super-Villains

Clark Kent's Brother! by Edmond Hamilton (Superman #175): An imaginary story where Jonathan and Martha Kent survive and adopt Lex Luthor, who becomes Superman's ally.

The Feud Between Batman and Superman by Edmond Hamilton (World's Finest #143): When Batman is injured helping Superman he believes he is not helping Superman because he doesn't have any super powers; Superman takes him to Kandor where neither have super powers to get his confidence back.

Prison For Heroes! by Edmond Hamilton (World's Finest #145): Batman is hypnotized into becoming the warden of an alien prison and charged with capturing Superman and imprisoning him with the other heroes inside.

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Allen Berrebbi wrote:

Simon wrote:

I like the fact that they don't really delve into any kind of subtext or backstory. This guy's a villain and he uses his powers to do wrong, and Superman uses his powers to do right...and that's all you need to know. We don't get some kind of sob story about why Starshine's a villlain and we're not told to feel sorry for him or whatever. There are no mitigating circumstances. He's a bad guy doing bad stuff so he's the enemy of Superman, who's the good guy.

Yeah, unhinged, old fashioned, whatever term is used...I'm still a Silver and Bronze Age fan at heart. Once things got grim and gritty I backed off...but now I don't even know what to make of things. My experience with The Immortal Hulk soured me on modern comics completely, it seems. Thankfully, there's a ton of old stuff to read and it's all being collected and republished on a regular basis so...it's there if I want to read it.

Agree with you 100%! Isn't the very point about comics, especially the traditional big two superheroes, to escape to this fantasy world? None of it is realistic and trying to make it so is dumb and yes, immature.

I swear of all the fantasy genres, comic fans are the worst. Always trying to ruin the fun.

I'm totally for giving the villain a backstory or making him sympathetic if the writer is using those strategies to make the story more interesting. But all too often, it seems like it's doing the opposite -- it's slowing the story down, the villain's backstory really isn't that interesting, and it just creates a sense of tedium. And these days, it's overused... you see on sites with writing advice that writers should always do this stuff with the villain and I think it's just gotten played out.

I'm a believer that just about anything can work, a story being "grim and gritty" or "deconstructionist" doesn't automatically make it bad, but the writer still has to be a good writer to make it work.

Simon · **Joined:** 26 Oct 2006 **Posts:** 59406

I suppose I'm referring to the tedium part you mentioned - as you say, anything can work if the writer is good at what they're doing.

I just prefer Superman as the ultimate good guy. I don't need much more from him than that.

Ocean Doot · 25 Oct 2007

Jason Michael wrote:

You can get the collected editions from Amazon:

Geiger Vol. 1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1534320024/?tag=imwan-20

Quote:

The critically acclaimed team of writer GEOFF JOHNS and artist GARY FRANK unites with superstar colorist BRAD ANDERSON to bring their first creator-owned hero to Image Comics!

Set in the years after a nuclear war ravaged the planet, desperate outlaws battle for survival in a world of radioactive chaos. Out past the poisoned wasteland lives a man even the Nightcrawlers and Organ People fear. Some name him Joe Glow, others call him the Meltdown Man. But his name...is Geiger.

Releasing June 27:
Junkyard Joe Vol. 1

Quote:

Throughout history, unlikely and strange heroes have risen and fallen, their identities and lives a secret. But for a Great Evil to be stopped, their stories must be told. They are The Unnamed fighting The Unknown War.

From the explosive pages of GEIGER comes JUNKYARD JOE! The world knows him from the comic strip by recently retired cartoonist Muddy Davis, but the truth stretches back to the Vietnam War. It was there that the tragedies of combat and visions of a strange robot solider that saved his life still haunt him. However, dreams become reality when Joe mysteriously shows up on Muddy’s doorstep, warning us of a new and impending war.

These are by Johns AND Frank?

Hmmmm, I might pick these up. I do love that team.

Allen Berrebbi · 07 Sep 2004

Another classic is the first planet Lexor story. Big fan of that one

Beachy · 18 Sep 2005

My Dad had that issue, but I forget the significance of the glowing shoes that Luthor is wearing on the cover.
He's cheating somehow, right?

Linda · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:21 pm

They're on a Krypton-like planet with high gravity and a red sun, where Superman has no powers so Luthor can have a fair fight with him. But Luthor needs "gravity shoes" in order to move around normally on that planet.

Beachy · 18 Sep 2005

Okay, so… ummm… equal footing.

Hanzo the Razor · 24 Jun 2007

Equal footing, but ol' Supey got it done in the end. (And hey, imgur is no longer blocked on my work computer!)

That meddlin kid · 26 Mar 2007

Junkyard Joe up there reminds me of the old G.I. Robot in my brother's war comics back in the day. Weirdly enough I happened to think about the G.I. Robot only this morning. I have no idea why.

Pre-Crisis Superman love

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