I still say that while superhero fatigue might be a small factor, it's more that the stories are not that good. Nothing from DC/WB has been, really. None of the Sony "Spider-Man side character" movies. The MCU stagnated after Endgame. But people will still go see a movie, if it's good (GotG 3, for instance).

Yeah, I'll keep watching superhero movies until I die. Just make some better ones.

Stop making the movies and TV shows interconnected. The second Doctor Strange movie leaned heavily on the WandaVision TV show,which most moviegoers probably hadn't seen,and which undoubtedly lessened the movie for them.That interconnectivity between Marvel's comic books in a big reason why they've lost mainstream readers;it 's foolish for Marvel Studios to follow the same strategy for their movies and TV shows.

I've mostly enjoyed them, but I personally feel it's three major factors -- first, the cost and inconvenience of going to a theater in the "streaming in 2-3 months" era is a tough sell. It basically has to be a "can't miss, don't want to see this after everyone else" type movie. Marvel used to have an advantage in that they fit the bill with big movies that usually delivered and characters people were invested in.

But reason two, they've moved on from those very popular characters / actors people really care about (my wife, who wouldn't read a comic at gunpoint, actually teared up when Tony Stark died in Endgame) and replaced them with characters that people just aren't connecting with. Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel, Shang Chi (who I loved), etc. just aren't getting the public invested in their stories. As you can see from recent box office results, people are willing to go into a theater for the previously established characters like GOTG, Spider-Man, and Thor (but they left money on the table once people saw how weak that last one is).

And reason three, to your point -- the movies are inconsistent. I don't think most of them are flat bad, but they aren't great either. A movie that's the quality of The Marvels or Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania about a character people love like RDJ's Iron Man, Evans' Captain America or Boseman's Black Panther would probably do well enough to push off any concerns about a decline. But when the movie has "take 'em or leave 'em" characters like Ant-Man and Captain Marvel, they really have to be that much better. "Good but not essential viewing" isn't good enough for people to spend $60-$100 at the movie theater.

I also think the shows being very inconsistent and then having key plot points that tie into the movies was a big misfire as well. It's not a special occasion to see Loki or Falcon or Nick Fury in a movie when you can watch 6-8 episodes of them on Disney+ for a subscription that's cheaper than a movie ticket.

The MCU does not need any more tools. They have enough, already.

But these tools have been "re"-ed.

Haven't seen the shows and movies in question, but that could be an issue. Some Easter eggs or something to reward viewers of the one who watch the other would be nice, but the viewers of the movie should be able to "get" the movie without having first watched the show.

They have drifted from being about characters finding their heroic calling, to being about characters finding their identity through cosplay.

I think we're good, thanks.

Does anyone want to hear about what would make me want to be in a Marvel movie?

It's cool if you guys want to know. Like, you can totally ask me questions about it, if you want.

I thought Stewart's answer was going to be Martin Scorsese.

Correctamundo. And also mocking the idea of a strong hero who isn't female.

I read the title of the thread as “Marvel Studios are tools”.

Well… if the shoe fits.

This sounds correct.

The movies used to be so consistent! I don't think there was a genuine MCU stinker from Winter Soldier to Endgame, and all the movies were smarter and funnier than they needed to be. It felt like they weren't allowing inferior product out the door. (The special effects sometimes looked like shit, but now all the special effects look like shit.)

I think as a corollary to Reason Two, Marvel has neglected to launch its new characters as new series in their own right, instead as episodes of the MCU. Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Guardians, Ant Man, Dr. Strange, Black Panther and Captain Marvel were established as distinct film series before they crossed over and the initial sequels continued as distinct film series after, or could have, and could have probably continued indefinitely in a James Bond style. Most of the Phase 4 & 5 movies instead played as MCU Part 50-whatever.

I also think Marvel faces multiverse saturation, if the culture hasn't reached it already. A multiverse movie may have won an Oscar a couple years ago, but I don't think its $143 million gross portended the mass global appetite for stories about multiverses execs seem to think exists. In eleven films from 2021-2014, Marvel has four about the multiverse. Not to mention the Spiderverse cartoons, the Flash movie and a bunch of horror movies and romantic comedies. They haven't even explored what has already been introduced.

I've said before that there appears to be only so much room in the movie market for really vast, sprawling connected properties of the sort comic book fans are familiar with. Which is probably part of the reason the DCU movies have disappointed in commercial terms--Marvel had already saturated the market for that sort of thing.