Post subject: Maybe it's the FOURTH WORLD, maybe it's his first time around.
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2024 9:14 pm
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Dare to do it,Doot.
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Post subject: Maybe it's the FOURTH WORLD, maybe it's his first time around.
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2024 10:12 pm
Hen Teaser
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If When you do so,might I suggest reviewing the comics in order of publication? That way,we'll experience them the same way those first readers of the titles did back in the day.
_________________ What will be will be even if it never happens.
Post subject: Maybe it's the FOURTH WORLD, maybe it's his first time around.
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:35 am
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You must dare. At the end you’ll be someone else.
If you're open to submissions for your reading order, I created a hybrid. It's mostly in order of publication, but with the issues with multipart stories read consecutively. The two, three and even four-part stories read much better as a group. My way the reader experiences the sense of the epic unfolding provided by publication order, before allowing multi issue stories to have a greater impact all at once rather than diluted over hundreds of pages. I'll post it if you're interested.
_________________ if you ar enot loving comic books then maybe be loivng other things!
Post subject: Maybe it's the FOURTH WORLD, maybe it's his first time around.
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:33 am
Dendritic Oscillating Ontological Tesseract
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Dave Miller wrote:
You must dare. At the end you’ll be someone else.
If you're open to submissions for your reading order, I created a hybrid. It's mostly in order of publication, but with the issues with multipart stories read consecutively. The two, three and even four-part stories read much better as a group. My way the reader experiences the sense of the epic unfolding provided by publication order, before allowing multi issue stories to have a greater impact all at once rather than diluted over hundreds of pages. I'll post it if you're interested.
Post subject: Maybe it's the FOURTH WORLD, maybe it's his first time around.
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 4:24 am
Dendritic Oscillating Ontological Tesseract
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PREAMBLE While waiting for the reading list, here's a bit of the context that I'll be reading the comics in.
THE COMICS CONTINUITY CONTEXT Actually in the comics themselves, I've read very few appearances of any of the Fourth World stuff. The Big Barda porn story is my main entry point into this universe -- we can all agree, the BEST possible entry point. And I think we all know where I mean by entry point, amirite? #HighFive
Oh, and then of course Claremont used some of the Fourth World stuff whenever he got a chance to play in the DCU -- first with the "X-Men/Teen Titans" crossover, and then later with "Sovereign Seven." From the perspective of the Claremont fan, great stuff, but probably not quite an accurate representation of the original Kirby extravaganza of imagination. (I read every single issue of Sovereign Seven, and there was not even a single panel of Big Barda porn. Talk about spitting in Kirby's face. #FuckYouClaremont)
Darkseid also featured in some Nu52 comics, I read, but ... that's Nu52. Those comics are even worse than the ones by Byrne and Claremont, if you can even imagine material less impressive than stuff by those two hacks.
And that's pretty much it, other than seeing occasional iconic Kirby pages posted online, and thinking, "Seems cool, I should get into that one day."
So I'm going into this pretty cold.
THE ANIMATED POP CULTURAL CONTEXT The Dini/Timm animated DC universe made a lot of use of the Fourth World mythos, and they always made it seem really cool and intriguing.
And of course back in the 1980s Darkseid and his ilk were villains in the latter seasons of "Super Friends." Lame in retrospect but cool to a 5 year old. Tom Scioli has been doing his reviews of the Fourth World for YouTube, which I can never stand for very long because he feels the need to do "dramatic readings" of certain passages, and, well ... a voice actor Scioli is NOT. Most irritating amongst the tics of his performance is his need to do the same voice for Darkseid that the "Super Friends" performer did -- that goofy gravelly voice was ubiquitous for corny villains of the 1980s, like Dr. Klaw from "Inspector Gadget." ("I'll get you, Gadget!") Ah, Scioli. So much to love about his comics, and yet so much about his YouTube channel that simply befuddles.
But I digress.
There's also a DC Universe direct-to-DVD animated film that has some Fourth World stuff going on, including appearances by Darkseid and Big Barda. I don't remember the name of the movie ... maybe just "Apocalypse"? I like it.
#RELEASETHESNYDERCUT CONTEXT I also saw that Justice League movie. The Whedon version. Was Darkseid even in that? Or was it just Steppenwolf?
AND OF COURSE THE GREATEST CONTEXT OF ALL, SEASON 10 OF SMALLVILLE Actually I think the references to Fourth World started sneaking into Smallville much earlier than Season Ten. There was Cadmus Labs, introduced in Season 1 ... and Morgan Edge, introduced in Season 3 ... Bruno Manheim introduced in Season 8 ...
... but it wasn't until the final season that we got the Smallville-riffic version of: Darkseid, Glorious Godfrey, DeSaad, Granny Goodness, AND the Furies. And maybe a couple others too. They name-dropped "Orion" at one point but didn't do anything with that, really.
AND LEST WE FORGET, THE IMWAN CONTEXT We know Hanzo loves it, Dave M. loves it, Jason M loves it, Evans hates the dialogue, Bishop Hammer is ambivalent, Linda thinks it needed more Adam West, Kid Nemo thinks it needed more Harpo, Prof Plum thinks it needed more Cox-Swallow, Marcus thinks it would have been better if Jim Shooter had edited it, and of course Li'l Jay has no opinion of his own and will just agree with whatever I end up saying about it.
So, armed with that knowledge, I am ready to proceed!
Post subject: Maybe it's the FOURTH WORLD, maybe it's his first time around.
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:58 am
Joined:
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Posts:
2996
Ocean Doot wrote:
Dave Miller wrote:
You must dare. At the end you’ll be someone else.
If you're open to submissions for your reading order, I created a hybrid. It's mostly in order of publication, but with the issues with multipart stories read consecutively. The two, three and even four-part stories read much better as a group. My way the reader experiences the sense of the epic unfolding provided by publication order, before allowing multi issue stories to have a greater impact all at once rather than diluted over hundreds of pages. I'll post it if you're interested.
I am more than interested. I am VERY interested.
Jimmy Olsen #133-#138
Forever People #1 (Supertown)
New Gods #1 (Orion Fights for Earth)
Mister Miracle #1 (Scot Free)
Forever People #2
New Gods #2
Mister Miracle #2
Jimmy Olsen #139 & #140 (Goody Rickels) (Lightray shown on his way to NG3)
Forever People #3-#6 (Happyland)
New Gods #3 (Black Racer)
Mister Miracle #3 & #4 (Bedlam)
New Gods #4-#6 (Deep Six)
Jimmy Olsen #142 & 143 (Transylvania)
Mister Miracle #5
Jimmy Olsen #144
Jimmy Olsen #145
Jimmy Olsen #146
Mister Miracle #6 (Funky Flashman)
Forever People #7 (Time)
New Gods #7 (The Pact)
Jimmy Olsen #147
Mister Miracle #7
Mister Miracle #8
Jimmy Olsen #148
Forever People #8
New Gods #8
Mister Miracle #9 (Himon)
Forever People #9 & #10 (Deadman)
New Gods #9 & #10 (Bug)
Mister Miracle #10
Forever People #11
New Gods #11
Mister Miracle #11
Mister Miracle #12-#17 (Not really Fourth World)
Mister Miracle #18 (Kirby's Last Seventies Fourth World)
New Gods Reprint #6 (“Even Gods Must Die!”)
Hunger Dogs Graphic Novel
For extra credit, Kirby worked on Super Powers comics which pitted Darkseid against the Justice League. Kirby plotted the first Super Powers mini-series, and wrote and drew the fifth and final issue. Kirby drew but did not write the six issues of Volume 2, but the story continues directly from Hunger Dogs.
Also, apparently Captain Victory can be interpreted as a stealth sequel about Orion's son, but I haven't read it.
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