No Flash for David Goyer


superherohype.com

Geez, Rob. You're all full of good news tonight.
Wondy Woo-woo and Flasheroonie movies down the tubes for now.
What the hell can JB bitch about now?

Oh well, I'd rather hear it from a friend,
so thanks for that, anyway.

I wonder which way WB execs are thinking - Towards doing more Marvel Style cheap ass actioners or Epics like Batman Begins?

Probably doing cheap ass actioners disguised as epics.

Any chance that his movie script can be turned into a comic book plot/script?

Okay, not to get all, "Hollywood wins!" about it, but given that Goyer and Whedon are both pretty much comic book guys, and both films stalled because they and the studio had different visions, how likely is it that the studio isn't looking for a particularly faithful (with all the hokey conventions) superhero film, and is instead looking for something more like Smallville or Batman Begins?

As much as I enjoy "Smallville", it wasn't what I would call particularly faithful.

A nice alternate universe soap opera version of the Superman mythos, but that's about it for me.

Perhaps WB believes that the comic book movie fad has just about run it's course? Maybe they're waiting to see how "Ghost Rider" performs at the box office.

I was thinking Smallville (and Batman Begins) in terms of a de-emphasis on costumes, costumed supervillains, etc, and more "realistic".

Or they could be a little gun shy after Superman Returns.

Not sure what you mean by that. Smallville takes a heavy soap opera/serial approach that works well for television but not so well for feature films. Batman Begins took a more realistic approach and - for a super hero movie - had some fairly deliberate pacing. I think that that worked for Batman, but I'm not so sure it'd work as well for any other super hero character.

It seems odd that DC isn't having better luck. Their characters are generally more iconic than Marvel's, so you'd think that they'd be easier to adapt. When we read Spider-Man, we like the soap opera and angst. When we read Iron Man, we like the corporate warrior/technology angle. When we read Fantastic Four, we like the family dynamic and relationships between the four characters. When we read the Flash, though, we like that he runs faster than anyone else. We want to see him run so fast on a tread mill that he goes through time. We want to see him vibrate through walls. In other words - it's not so much about character bits as about cool applications of the super speed concept. Really - how hard is that to get right????

The Hulk movie baffled me for the same reason. The Hulk should be one of the easiest Marvel characters to get right. Yet, for some reason - they made him boring. Go figure.

Wow, I just realized I totally misread your post! Sorry, Matt.

I think DC heroes will, in the long run, prove less appealing. (except Batman and Superman).

There, I said it.

Someone ban him.

DC seems to have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot, in my opinion. Two decent Batman movies, followed by two crappy ones. Two decent Superman movies followed by two crappy ones. Smallville's a hit show, the creators would like to do a young Bruce Wayne show, and WB says no. Birds of Prey (crappy as it was) gets canceled before it has a real chance to get better. Aquaman is canceled before it even starts. They just never seem to be able to see beyond Batman and Superman when it comes to filming their properties. Even the new Legion cartoon is also a Superman cartoon. Why no Wonder Woman or Green Lantern Corps cartoon? Green Lantern seems tailor-made for a film, yet the closest it's come is the Jack Black rumor.

Meanwhile, like it or not, Marvel's dominated the film market with X-Men, X2, X3, Blade 1-3, Fantastic Four 1 and 2, Spider-Man 1-3, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Elektra, Hulk, Ultimate Avengers 1-2, Invincible Iron Man, Doctor Strange, and the upcoming Iron Man movie (all released, or at least filming at this point).

Well, they've been owned by Warner Bros awhile.

and we've gotten-Superman and Batman ad nauseum. from cartoons to movies to tv with Smallville\.

Memo to DC-we get it regarding Lex Luthor. Come up with some new villains for Superman for the movies. That aren't Richard Pryor and a computer.

Well, that sucks ass. I've liked most things by both Goyer and Whedon. To know that they're both off the movies they were working on simultaneously disappoints and frightens me. Now what is DC/Warner Bros. going to do?

Marvel is easier to adapt, and more importantly easier to pitch, because many of the characters are based on a "hook." Imagine you are giving a brief pitch of the first story (not the character) to Hollywood, and they already expect a guy/gal with superpowers and a costume. But they want to know if there's a hook in the heart of the story, something that makes you go "yeah." Here's how Marvel's goes:

1. Spider-Man: young man fails to use his powers to stop a criminal, who then kills his Uncle Ben. He realizes with great power comes great responsibility.

2. Hulk: mild-mannered egghead becomes a raging beast when he becomes angry. Hunted by the father of the woman he loves. (touches on the Jekyll/Hyde thing I know).

3. Iron Man: Jaded weapons designer feels the hero within him stir when he gets caught up in a third world war. He devises a suit of armor that he must wear to save his life.

4. X-Men: a school for troubled mutant teens, hated by the world they are sworn to protect. They get caught up in a war between the good mutants and the bad mutants.

And so on.

Superman and Batman have similar hooks. But after that, the "iconic" DC characters by and large do not have existing origin stories that are all that compelling.

Silver Age Flash is an example of this problem. Not really a compelling backstory. I can almost picture the people working with this material struggling to find something to make it stick. "What would make this story really grab you?" they might ask.

I think it has to do more with the fact that Marvel had Avi Arad and WB has some guy in a suit. Time/Warner has never really been original about any of their DC products from the top down, there is not a DC Comics Media Specialist who's overseeing the product. KidsWB/Cartoon Network got lucky because they had Dini and Timm to give them 15 years of Batman, Superman, Justice League, etc. But it's all hit or miss depending on who's Directing, which means the guys hiring the directors instincts are just as good as flipping a coin.

Hal Jordan's origin would still work. He gets the job from a dying alien. I'd even accept that he might not want the job at first, but enjoys the fun that the ring is capable of creating.

Barry Allen's origin would be better served if we knew why he was a police forensics scientist first. The fact that he gets superpowers would enhance those abilities. With the recent love of CSI type shows, it would do well.

If they did Jay Garrick's origin, he was a costumed adventurer because it's fun. He had a cute girlfriend that knew his alter ego, and the only thing she wanted was included in on things. His story would be fun in the way that the Incredibles and Sky High were fun.

As always, so much depends on the writer (and in this case director and cast). I could make a great movie out of Hourman. But that's only because I'm wonderful, not because of Hourman.

Now to squeeze my head through the door.

Hourman's actually got a great hook. Only has his powers for one hour. The second he puts himself in a dangerous situation, the clock is ticking (no pun intended). Play up the possible addiction (initially thought to be an addiction to Miraclo, but in the end revealed that it's an addiction to the danger involved), and add in an interesting love interest and the back drop of Rex Tyler heading up a major corporation, and you've got (IMO) a pretty cool movie.

Perhaps they've decided that they will make a Justice League movie instead.

Actually, Flash shouldn't be too hard. (although his powers aren't AMAZING compared to others).

I would imagine that Wonder Woman is going to be extremenly difficult to do and extremely expensive.

He may not want to advertize that fact in his name for the bad guys

What is the reason he can't take another pill?

(I know nothing of Hourman, except the 1 hour thing)