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That meddlin kid
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:40 pm |
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Biker Librarian
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Joined: | 26 Mar 2007 |
Posts: | 25152 |
Location: | On the highway, looking for adventure |
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Apologies if I've missed mention of this here at IMWAN. A comics shop in Milwaukee is being asked to sell a copy of Spider-Man's first appearance that somebody found among a deceased relative's possessions. We've all heard tales of things like this happening. Now it really has! Quote: MILWAUKEE (AP) — A Milwaukee comic book shop is looking to sell a rare copy of the first appearance of Spider-Man.
Collector’s Edge has acquired a copy of Amazing Fantasy No. 15, the Journal Sentinel reported. The comic book, written by Marvel Comics icon Stan Lee and published in 1962, tells the story of how Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider, gained amazing powers and learns that with great power comes great responsibility.
The shop’s owner, Steve Dobrzynski, first posted photos of the book on social media last Tuesday. He told the Journal Sentinel a couple found the book among a dead relative’s possessions and brought it to him for help selling it. He did not name the couple.A near-perfect copy of Amazing Fantasy No. 15 sold for $3.6 million at auction in Texas in 2021. The Collector’s Edge copy is worn and the edges have small tears.
Dobrzynski sent it to the Certified Guaranty Company, a Florida-based comics and collectibles grading service. The service rated the book at 3.0 on a scale of 0.5 to 10, with 0.5 being very bad condition and 10 being perfect condition. Dobrzynski said the book could fetch as much as $35,000.
“It depends, if you put it up at auction, who’s bidding on it,” he said. “If nobody’s bidding on it, it’s obviously going to sell for a bit less.”
Dobrzynski contacted some regular customers to give them a shot at buying the book before making it public, but he hasn’t gotten a yes or no from any of them yet.
“They’re thinking about it, but I can only wait so long for people to think about it,” Dobrzynski said. “If I’m selling it for someone else, my due diligence is to try to get the best possible price I can.” https://apnews.com/article/spiderman-am ... b8b3fec813An asking price of $35,000 for a book that's not even near-mint! Given that there are quite a few collectible issues that would be worth serious money if somebody stumbled across one, there must be quite a few people around the country who are holding onto undiscovered treasures like this. Does anybody know any stories of people finding such things? I don't, personally.
_________________ The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls who, when he found an especially costly one, sold everything he had to buy it.
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Simon
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:53 pm |
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...
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Joined: | 26 Oct 2006 |
Posts: | 59406 |
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Good Lord.
Someone's going to buy it...but even if I had that kind of money that someone wouldn't be me.
_________________ "They'll bite your finger off given a chance" - Junkie Luv (regarding Zebras)
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Hanzo the Razor
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:58 pm |
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Ancient Alien Theorist
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Joined: | 24 Jun 2007 |
Posts: | 105335 |
Location: | The Fourth World |
Bannings: | 2001 |
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A copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 graded at 9.6 recently sold for 3.6 million, so that copy has apparently lost a lot of the value. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movie ... 235010420/By coincidence, someone is trying to sell an AF #15 graded at 3.0 for about $32k on eBay now. If I was in the market for one, I think a little damage around the edges would be worth the millions of dollars saved, but what do I know?   
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Brandon
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:07 pm |
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Joined: | 05 Mar 2007 |
Posts: | 12484 |
Location: | Baton Rouge, LA |
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The CGC market has grown prices to premiums not seen ever before and a lot of people think their ungraded copy of whatever is worth the same as a graded copy of whatever. It lends itself to some shady stuff if you aren't careful.
Having said that, it is an interesting market to follow and quite out of my price range for the majority of 9.8 books for sure.
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That meddlin kid
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:12 pm |
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Biker Librarian
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Joined: | 26 Mar 2007 |
Posts: | 25152 |
Location: | On the highway, looking for adventure |
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Forget finding collectible comics to sell--you can make good money in your spare time selling greeting cards!
_________________ The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls who, when he found an especially costly one, sold everything he had to buy it.
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Jason Gore
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:05 pm |
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Joined: | 22 Aug 2004 |
Posts: | 4632 |
Location: | Toronto |
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Happy for the person involved - either you're a comic book fan and you have a great book, or you're not, and you have some money.
As much as I hate to admit it, when it comes to the investment grade books, there's probably no way I'd consider buying a book online that wasn't CGC'ed. Not that I'm interesting in buying new 9.8 / 10.0 of modern books, but I'm not going to take some random dudes view on the condition of a book I can't look and feel myself. thankfully I don't expect to ever play in this segment of the market. the only real investment quality books that I want for reasons other than investment would be Detective 38 and More Fun 77, and both of those are well beyond my price range, even in a 1.0
Jason
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Beachy
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:33 pm |
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Mr. IMWANKO
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Joined: | 18 Sep 2005 |
Posts: | 73854 |
Location: | the Moist Periphery of Pendulum Tide |
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I used to have pretty good luck buying comics online and receiving the approximate grade described of the book. If anything, the books I got were in better shape than advertised. I suspect those sellers knew what they had but didn't want to deal with any returns or buyer remorse turned to disagreeing with the grading.
Sellers got worse as the years went on.
Today I wouldn't take a chance on something like a Tales to Astonish #27 unless it were slabbed.
_________________ Staging Areas Approach Area Area of a Triquetra Area of Effect Life Longing
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Hanzo the Razor
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:16 pm |
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Ancient Alien Theorist
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Joined: | 24 Jun 2007 |
Posts: | 105335 |
Location: | The Fourth World |
Bannings: | 2001 |
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What's strange for me is that the book really skyrockets in price when the book is slabbed. A book that's "raw" in great condition will sell for multiple times that value if it's slabbed and the condition is confirmed. One site says -- Quote: A comic worth, say, $50,000 raw could be worth $250,000 slabbed in high condition. All of the highest-value comics are slabbed because they're rare and valuable, and slabbing them helps preserve them from further damage or degradation over time. I can see adding the cost of the appraisal itself onto the value of the book, but for it to be worth five times the actual value just because it's slabbed seems insane.
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Hanzo the Razor
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:19 pm |
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Ancient Alien Theorist
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Joined: | 24 Jun 2007 |
Posts: | 105335 |
Location: | The Fourth World |
Bannings: | 2001 |
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And I'm reading it costs about $30 plus shipping both ways for slabbing, so it's only really worth it if it's a sought-after book with an already high value.
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Jason Michael
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:45 pm |
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Nominated IMWAN's "Wet Blanket" for 2021
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Joined: | 30 May 2012 |
Posts: | 12239 |
Location: | Pembroke, Ontario, Canada |
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The thing I don't get is that if you buy the book slabbed at 5 times its actual value, obviously you are not going to open it to read it as it immediately loses most of the value you paid for it. So you are only buying it to have it. That is not why I own my comics. I honestly don't even like bagging and boarding them. They are to read. I get that if I have a copy of Action # 1, slabbing it is going to help preserve the book, but slabbing the first appearance of Deadpool just seems silly to me. It's just a type of collecting I can't wrap my head around.
_________________ “Don’t take life too serious. It ain’t nohow permanent.”
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Hanzo the Razor
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:19 pm |
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Ancient Alien Theorist
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Joined: | 24 Jun 2007 |
Posts: | 105335 |
Location: | The Fourth World |
Bannings: | 2001 |
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I don't own any slabbed books, but I'll admit to buying books just to have, like New Gods #1, Mister Miracle #1, and Kamandi #1. I have them HCs and TPBs of those stories, but I wanted to have the real issues since they mean so much to me.
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Jason Gore
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:28 pm |
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Joined: | 22 Aug 2004 |
Posts: | 4632 |
Location: | Toronto |
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Hanzo the Razor wrote: And I'm reading it costs about $30 plus shipping both ways for slabbing, so it's only really worth it if it's a sought-after book with an already high value. This is basically FedEx to Colorado for the book. The shop I used to do this would do bulk shipping calls to CGC for clients, sending out an e-mail saying they were going to send in some books. I know I've seen CGC's assessment rates, but it's really the high value category that shafts you (4% of FMV of the graded book - ouch)
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Jason Gore
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:30 pm |
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Joined: | 22 Aug 2004 |
Posts: | 4632 |
Location: | Toronto |
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Hanzo the Razor wrote: What's strange for me is that the book really skyrockets in price when the book is slabbed. A book that's "raw" in great condition will sell for multiple times that value if it's slabbed and the condition is confirmed. One site says -- Quote: A comic worth, say, $50,000 raw could be worth $250,000 slabbed in high condition. All of the highest-value comics are slabbed because they're rare and valuable, and slabbing them helps preserve them from further damage or degradation over time. I can see adding the cost of the appraisal itself onto the value of the book, but for it to be worth five times the actual value just because it's slabbed seems insane. That's because it converts a subjective value asset (the comic book you enjoyed as a child), into an "objectively" valued asset with an established market value that is now subject to market fluctuation and investment. So it increases the manageability of the value of the asset, and therefore generates demand in the non-comic reading space.
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Jason Gore
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:36 pm |
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Joined: | 22 Aug 2004 |
Posts: | 4632 |
Location: | Toronto |
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Hanzo the Razor wrote: I don't own any slabbed books, but I'll admit to buying books just to have, like New Gods #1, Mister Miracle #1, and Kamandi #1. I have them HCs and TPBs of those stories, but I wanted to have the real issues since they mean so much to me. I support this practice wholeheartedly, slabbed or un-slabbed. Being able to read a story isn't the same as owning a copy of the actual book. And I know this in a discussion about high value books, and almost all of those have been collected / reprinted / trade paperbacked at some point, but there's still so many books from the 70s that were never collected that buying the individual issues are the only way to get them.
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Beachy
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:36 pm |
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Mr. IMWANKO
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Joined: | 18 Sep 2005 |
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Beachy
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:39 pm |
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Mr. IMWANKO
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Joined: | 18 Sep 2005 |
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Location: | the Moist Periphery of Pendulum Tide |
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Yeah, see:  If I were to slab my AF#15, they'd want 4% of its value extra to do it. $1200 on a $30K book, plus shipping and boffo insurance costs. I wonder how many boxes marked UV go "lost in shipping"? I also wonder if a slabbing service gets 4% of a book's value if they are more inclined to grade them higher?
_________________ Staging Areas Approach Area Area of a Triquetra Area of Effect Life Longing
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Hanzo the Razor
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:57 am |
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Ancient Alien Theorist
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Joined: | 24 Jun 2007 |
Posts: | 105335 |
Location: | The Fourth World |
Bannings: | 2001 |
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Jason Gore wrote: Hanzo the Razor wrote: I don't own any slabbed books, but I'll admit to buying books just to have, like New Gods #1, Mister Miracle #1, and Kamandi #1. I have them HCs and TPBs of those stories, but I wanted to have the real issues since they mean so much to me. I support this practice wholeheartedly, slabbed or un-slabbed. Being able to read a story isn't the same as owning a copy of the actual book. And I know this in a discussion about high value books, and almost all of those have been collected / reprinted / trade paperbacked at some point, but there's still so many books from the 70s that were never collected that buying the individual issues are the only way to get them. And the actual issues are time capsules of sorts with the ads, newsprint and original coloring -- in a modern collection, the comic sort of stands on its own merits, but the original artifact offers a glimpse of the time and place the story was published in.
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Hanzo the Razor
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:00 am |
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Ancient Alien Theorist
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Joined: | 24 Jun 2007 |
Posts: | 105335 |
Location: | The Fourth World |
Bannings: | 2001 |
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Beachy wrote: If I were to slab my AF#15, they'd want 4% of its value extra to do it. $1200 on a $30K book, plus shipping and boffo insurance costs.
I wonder how many boxes marked UV go "lost in shipping"?
I also wonder if a slabbing service gets 4% of a book's value if they are more inclined to grade them higher? What a despicable practice. I never had an issue with slabbing, but now I've lost respect to the parasites who want to charge a fortune for not doing any additional work. You're grading a comic and putting it in a plastic case, for fuck's sake.
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Beachy
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:13 am |
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Mr. IMWANKO
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Joined: | 18 Sep 2005 |
Posts: | 73854 |
Location: | the Moist Periphery of Pendulum Tide |
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They also add at least one sheet of acid free paper between the cover and the first page. So… well worth $1200.
I worked out a couple of good buy deals in the past buying CGC comics where the cases had been dropped and cracked (not crack open enough where you could replace the comic inside or anything) but--for whatever reason-- they weren't worth the person's time to send them back to CGC to get them replaced into a new case (which is done at minimum cost with no change in grading). So I have broken comics out of slabs and put them in regular mylar. (I kept the grading slip, but there's no guarantee that it's the same book to a future buyer. Still… I like to keep it for a professional grading example/guide.
I also know of a few cases where people sent comics in to be slabbed, got them back with a lower grade than they expected, then broke them open and resubmitted them (with no other additional clean up or restoration) and then gotten back much higher grades. I'm really not interested in the grading crap shoot where the same book might come back as a 4.5 or a 5.5 depending on which Biff or Lenny flipped through it.
_________________ Staging Areas Approach Area Area of a Triquetra Area of Effect Life Longing
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Jason Gore
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:56 pm |
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Joined: | 22 Aug 2004 |
Posts: | 4632 |
Location: | Toronto |
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Oh, c'mon, 4% isn't that big a cut when they are increasing a books value by hundreds of percent by doing so. Similar to how your tip at an Applebee's and a tip at a Michelin star restaurant aren't the same, even though the service is.
And the other thing is I there is a major insurance premium involved here - most books are pre-graded by someone else to ensure its even worth sending in, and if the value falls off significantly, lawyers could argue it happened at CGC. and if those books go missing when CGC is paying for its return, they're exposed on that as well, and they would have to sue Fed Ex to reclaim it. so that's more business risk for CGC.
And they're a monopoly, so they can charge what they like. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
But seriously, yeah, this is a scam.
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Jason Michael
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:11 pm |
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Nominated IMWAN's "Wet Blanket" for 2021
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Joined: | 30 May 2012 |
Posts: | 12239 |
Location: | Pembroke, Ontario, Canada |
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Interesting revelations about people abusing CGC lately: https://www.comicsbeat.com/cgc-slabbing ... ing-world/Quote: CGC slabbing scandal rocks the collecting world "Slab-gate"
By Heidi MacDonald
While The Beat doesn’t often cover the high stakes world of collecting super valuable comics, a slabbing scandal has rocked this corner of comics that threatens the very foundations of trust that world is built on.
The scandal involves CGC (Certified Guaranty Company), the company that rigorously grades and then slabs (encases in plastic) comics for collectors, complete with a seal of authenticity. You’ve undoubtedly seen their booths at tables at cons, and many collectors have availed themselves of CGC’s services to grade their comics for bragging rights and resale. During the pandemic, collecting all kinds of stuff got super hot, and prices soared. There is a whole giant world of websites, apps, YouTube channels and other companies that take part in the collecting world – and it’s fair to say it’s another multi-million dollar facet of the industry: the aftermarket.
Personally I find the idea of slabbing anything antithetical to my nature. I like to read comics and hold trading cards. And certainly, you can argue that the whole idea of “collectibility” has led to the variant plague and created an ecosystem that damages the comics industry. But comics collecting as a hobby is pretty foundational to comics history as well, so with this in mind, let’s begin.
Details of the “CGC Scandal” as it’s known (I guess Slab-gate was taken), broke over the Christmas holiday and it has mostly been covered in YouTube videos. Even a brief dive into writing about it became very time consuming and made me quickly learn such terms as “grade and trade” “GPA for CGC” and “Mark Jewelers variant.” Also “heat gun.” So what follows is certainly a laypersons view of a very complicated matter. However, I’ve spoken to a few trusted friend who straddle both worlds who tell me this is a serious development, so I’ll do my best. Since I am not a native speaker of the language in which the scandal has been talked about, I may have a few points wrong – I’m open for corrections.
Okay here’s the short version: a scammer (possibly more than one scammer) would buy a valuable comic in a high grade, say a 9.8 Hulk #181 (first Wolverine) and send it to CGC to grade, authenticate and slab. Then, using various tools, they would open the slab, swap in a lesser grade comic, then send THAT comic to CGC to be “reholdered” in a new slab and then sell the less valuable comic at the first price. A comic can be reholdered when the slab is damaged, hence the loophole. The rest of Heidi's story can be read at the link.
_________________ “Don’t take life too serious. It ain’t nohow permanent.”
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Beachy
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Post subject: Inheriting Collectible Comics--Sometimes People Get Lucky Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:24 pm |
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Mr. IMWANKO
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Joined: | 18 Sep 2005 |
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